What is sorcery in suikoden?

[WraithRune]

Sorry, I was reading a few posts and some mentioned about this sorcery thing. Like maybe some of the characters in suikoden are able to use magic without true runes like Sarah.

So I was wondering if they do not have runes equip on them, how do they access this power? I can't recall anything about sorcery in III, IV or V, except for the part in IV tactics where an old wizard supposedly symmoned a creature from another world to make rune cannons shells.

Just curious

[KFCrispy]

well how does any fictional character in any fictional setting use magic? obviously there's no true scientific/biological explanation for something that's impossible in real life.

as you said, sorcerers cast spells without runes. a lot of mages do this.. in-game they might have a unite with another character and conjuer up a fire spell without a rune (Tengaar, maybe Eileen...). so it seems as long as you study magic, you will be able to increase your magical abilities.

[Night]

well how does any fictional character in any fictional setting use magic? obviously there's no true scientific/biological explanation for something that's impossible in real life.

Generally there is some kind of explanation for it though. FF7 and materia, for example. Or other games that use the idea of mana/energy that is everywhere and and can be used by those attuned to it. There's also the idea of being able to manipulate the elements, although that follows kind of along the energy idea (someone being attuned to the natural state of things).

In Suikoden, the True Runes and their offshoots by and large seemed to be the source of magic. However, as pointed out a few individuals can cast spells without a rune, and no explanation has been given for this. My theory is that every individual is born with a small amount of magic as a part of their soul or something (not really surprising given that the world was created by runes according to legend). Some few individuals are just born highly connected to magic, and thus can use it without a rune.

I guess the real question is, do runes create magic, or are they just the tools to utilise it?

[thcrock]

Its really not presented well enough in the game for us to say.

As kfcrispy said, many characters appear to use magic in unites and stuff without any runes attached. I don't think anybody on the dev team had a specific answer to your question when making these.

On the other hand, there's the comment about Sarah - "That's not magic, that's true sorcery", and other people who can do teleporting, seemingly without a rune. Of course we don't know if there is some rune that they're using, but it does appear that some uber-mages can do many tricks without use of a rune.

My answer to your real questions is: It seems like the latter, but I don't think we really know.

[Vextor]

Runes are different from sorcery in that anybody can use it without any education or knowledge. As long as you have the rune on your body, and have some affinity or talent, you'll be able to use runes very well.

Sorcery and other types of non-runic magic requires study, practice, and other types of effort to master.

[KFCrispy]

well using runes and scrolls definitely require study/focus/concentrate/etc, as true rune bearers almost can't control their runes until they grow stronger, and in a Suikogaiden scene, Jeane helps Nash cast a spell from a scroll because he couldn't do it.

well the "not magic, it's sorcery" comment from Joker may imply magic is rune-related effects, sorcery is without runes. but as to explanations for anything, i still go with "no explanation", and no need for one other than natural abilities and/or studying it.

however, ultimately, pretty much everything comes from runes because the 27 True Runes allow things to exist in the world or whatever. so even if someone's not using a rune, if they create fire from nothing or with sticks, it's ultimately thanks to the True Fire Rune existing. (what would have happened if the True Wind Rune were destroyed-- no more "wind"? or maybe out of control..)

[Vextor]

Yeah, you'd need to study/train to a certain degree to be able to use powerful runes and scrolls, but that's not aways the case either, as some people are innately gifted to the point that they don't need any education to be able to use runes.

However, most magicians are good at using runes, so greater knowledge of runes probably does influence a person's ability to use he runes properly, or draw out greater potential.

[WraithRune]

Oh wow, thanks you guys clear things up for me. Just thinking out loud, if the true runes are the gods of suikoden, does that makes sense that there's a true rune governing true sorcery? Sort of like Mystra from forgotten realms.