Use Sun Rune to stop Godwin ~fomerly:Plot Holes (spoilers)

[Rezard]

Rezard, how are Belcoot and Marina criminals? Belcoot tried to obey the rules and look what it got him, drugged by the one he loves. Marina was scared for Belcoot and didn't want him marrying the Princess so Godwin used her, how is that criminal? If anyone is criminal, it's the Godwins. Using the Sun Rune on Stormfist would have been as wrong as using it on Lord Lake was. You don't use a hammer where a scalpel will do.

Marina is obviously a criminal, I mean she drugged the tournament’s finalist for such selfish reason. Her crime is much worse than Belcoot, since everybody trusted her. She committed treason! She made a enemy of the crown a commander of the queen’s knights. In a more realistic medieval country she would be sentenced to death.

Belcoot is a criminal not because what he did, but because what he didn’t. He should have at least tried to help them uncover gizel´s plot, but he didn’t do that. Instead he choose to protect Marina, who was criminal.

Helping a criminal escape from justice is a crime, but that’s not all he did, he accepted to freely and passively help the Goodwin’s plot be successful. If he confessed that he was drugged and accept to testify, maybe Arshat would have enough evidence to declare the games void.

Gizel would probably came up with something else, yet this no reason to give up and let him have everything his way. I agree that using the sun rune would be wrong.

Don't forget, it was Dolph that give her the Dark Arcanum and it was Dolph who convinced Sialeeds to change sides. He must have a way to convince Marina. Marina loves Belcoot so much that she watch over Hazuki a lot of times, she doesn't want to lose him (I would do the same if the same condition happened to me).
And another thing is when Belcoot marry Lym, think of what those noble will said, Marina don't want such thing....

Dolph might be strong, but he can´t control the minds of the people, Marina betrayed the hero using her free will, she didn´t care that evil people would enter the royal family or about the gladiators. All she ever cared about was having Belcoot. Does she even care about his happiness?

What would the nobles say?

[Jowy Atreides]

Yes they do, I don’t know who said, but it was said that Arsaht bore the sun rune just to delay war, that she knew it was going to happen. I think it was Lucretia.

Actually, they didn't. Being prepared for the worst doesn't mean you know it'll happen. Whenever I travel around downtown Dallas I always carry some kind of protection with me because I've been robbed blind down there. Falena, with the Senate, was a conflict-ridden country, and taking the Sun Rune was their preparation for what may or may not happen.

Whether or not you consider Marina and Belcoot criminals, because the player is shown their situation, Marina did break the law, no matter whether or not you agree with what she did. This argument is about morals and ethics, not whether or not a crime was committed, because it was infact committed. While she and Belcoot may have just been a part of a huge chain reaction started by the Godwins, they still committed crimes. Criminals commit crimes. This point really can't be argued.

[KFCrispy]

Arshtat very likely did not have ANY control over the Sun Rune. it was probably the Sun Rune's dark personality side that was able to destroy Lordlake. Her dark side also awoke to save Ferid from the archer--i don't think she meant to use the Sun Rune; rather, i think she snapped out of control due to the strong emotions.

Also, whether or not Arshtat intentionally destroyed Lordlake and was in control of the rune's powers, in the royal family's opinion, it was a tragedy not to be repeated at any cost. Arshtat's goal was to be able to control herself so no such thing would happen again, especially to any citizen of Falena. the Godwin attack obviously did not help her stay calm, and she lost it.

Destroying StormFist destroys more people and land; there is no point in killing the Godwins in that manner because it would only harm not only the entire city of StormFist but it and the country's future. the main threat of the Godwins taking over Falena was that they would use the Sun Rune to take over other lands, which means turning everything into Lordlake....!*
Also, allowing Arshtat to use the Sun Rune is always a risk, because she goes crazy even if she's a little upset. you see how she quickly concludes to destroy the whole country during the attack--obviously, similar cases had happened before.

so anyway, the royal plan was to protect the royal family and arrest/expose the Godwins, turning all their work starting from the Sacred Games against them. with dead Nethergate and Godwin soldier bodies lying around, and testimonies from Stormfists' own doctor, the evidence would be impossible to deny. the only problem was the Sun Rune (and the fact that Arshtat had little to no control over it).

*this brings up an idea that Marscal Godwin only really plotted the Sacred Games and takeover AFTER finding the northern ruins; how else would he expect to use a rune that only worked within the royal family? By successfully taking over Sol Falena, the entire country would have rebeled to take him down, so he HAD to have knowledge that he could utilize the Sun Rune in case things went bad--but Georg killing the Queen and running with Prince made things much easier, giving him the chance to actually be near the Rune and figure it out

["Deathblow" G]

Well first off all, the Godwins could of easly said there was no posion invloved. Murad couldn't decect it, he thinks Belcoots condtion is odd and thinks irs a posion. Marina could of confessed, but they could counter with "its a friend tring to help him, making up a excuse why he lost, so he can get another shot to win." Belcoot had no idea what the hell was going on at the time, and only knew about the posion after he was told. Yeah he could of said Marina posined him, but the Godwins could of said "there conspiring to get a favorbale outcome for them, in the Scared Games."

As for why Ferid didn't let Arshat take out Stormfist, well they love Falena, why would they want to hurt it like that. Arshat regrets Lordlake. I don't think the Godwins would of used the Sun Rune agasint Falena, just against other counties.

Proboly also becuase the Sun Rune was starting to take over his wife, and he maybe thought that if she used it again it would take her over more.

[Rezard]

[quote=""Deathblow" G"]Well first off all, the Godwins could of easly said there was no posion invloved. Murad couldn't decect it, he thinks Belcoots condtion is odd and thinks irs a posion. Marina could of confessed, but they could counter with "its a friend tring to help him, making up a excuse why he lost, so he can get another shot to win." Belcoot had no idea what the hell was going on at the time, and only knew about the posion after he was told. Yeah he could of said Marina posined him, but the Godwins could of said "there conspiring to get a favorbale outcome for them, in the Scared Games."[/quote]

The godwins could say lots of thinks, they should complain about anything you do to them, no matter what, but there could be (if Marina and Belcoot helped) enough proof that Belcoot was poisoned:

-Marina´s confession
-Belccot testimony: he felt weak and couldn’t fight
-Murad: he suspect he was drugged
-Royal knights specialist: Lyon tells he was drugged
-The entire arena in Sol Falena: everybody saw he was fighting weird, everybody saw he couldn’t lift his sword.

You are confusing two different things: proof he was drugged and proof the godwins drugged Belcoot. You had proof he was drugged, but you didn´t have any proof that Godwins did it, so you couldn’t say: "Godwin are conspiring to get a favorable outcome", but you can say: "Someone drugged him and the fight was unfair, let’s do a new match".

They would complain, but would have to obey.

[Oppenheimer]

Even if that were true, and I'm not convinced they have enough "proof" of being drugged, the Godwins would just try something else in the rematch, likely with deadly results this time. Short of taking down the entire Godwin facton the royal family was not going to win.

[Lurker1]

They would complain, but would have to obey.

Yes they would but the results would have been the same but with perhaps more deadly results. They were not going have their plans ruined. Gizel makes that very clear when he has his conversation with Dolph after the prince and company rescue Marina.

Dolph "If I may ask sir do you think she will use it"

Gizel “I don't know but I think it would be more interesting if she does if not I have taken other steps.

As far as why Ferid stopped Arshat from using the rune I think it everyone here and the game made that very clear. They didn't want another Lordlake. Last As far as Marina and Belcoot being criminals I disagree. Why because of what Marina says when Georg tells her that’s what they told you to say and she tells them that it was all her and they have to believe her then mentions something about the Innkeeper and his wife.

We didn't see it but I wouldn't be surprised if Dolph used a little coercion to get her to use it something like “It would be in yours and everyone’s best interest if you used the drug" to me that is being a victim not a criminal

*shrugs* just the way I saw it anyway

[Rezard]

They would complain, but would have to obey.

Yes they would but the results would have been the same but with perhaps more deadly results. They were not going have their plans ruined. Gizel makes that very clear when he has his conversation with Dolph after the prince and company rescue Marina.

Dolph "If I may ask sir do you think she will use it"

Gizel “I don't know but I think it would be more interesting if she does if not I have taken other steps.

That is no excuse to give up. Must the hero give up just because the Godwin won´t? Gizel would plan something else, let’s try to get him this time or should we just give up, give him everything because he is stubborn.

Think of it as chess game, you will try to catch each other king until someone is cornered and can´t protect his, you were not cornered yet at this point, so continue to play until he corners you or you do so to him.

That is what I thought when I was playing the game, but today I think the royal family preferred to let him do something (like attacking the palace) to try getting him for treason, they just didn´t expect to find Nether Gate at full power. (Which isn´t also the smartest move, what would they do if Gizel simply marries Lym without doing any attacks?)

The game should have made more clear the available options the royals had at the time. Otherwise, it makes me think they gave up because they were to lazy to continue to play with Gizel.

[thcrock]

The answer is they knew the Godwins were up to something more than just marrying Lym. Godwins had been the commanders of the queens knights many times, given all the scheming that the royals witnessed, they knew that something was up. Gizel simply marrying Lymsleia wouldn't be much of a 'win' for the Godwins. The royals would have to go.

The royals were just smart, they knew what the Godwins were going to do. If you actually look at it, the royals totally outschemed the Godwins in the game of chess. The only thing that went wrong was the sniper and the Sun Rune.

[nuizilla]

hmm

it's up again


In my opinion, I do think that Sialeed and Lyon don't have to die
They,Konami, didn't have to make them die. (it's too sad )
But I understand that if Sialeed didn't die ,she couldn't come back to explain what she'd been doing all along.



Anyway ,something is bothering me.
At the end of the game when fighting with Zahak and Alenia in the front of the Castle. Zahak and Alenia use those DRUG and sacrifice themself ,inspite of Zahak's action in Leclar comes out to be the opposite way (that time he presents himself to be a man that can kill everyone for the possible of his fleeing) .
Moreover Zahak and Alenia betray the royal yet, y they're so loyal to the Godwins.



Anyway, this game is real good , I love it !!!

[DeathChaser]

because they are fanatical supporters ..Godwins stand for everything they belive in ..power... they served under the crown just like a job,but under Godwins they serve cause they belive in their ideals of conquest and useing Sun Rune to subdue other nations. Just like many dictators and war mongrels Godwins attract loyal supporters who follow blindly. im talking about Zahak

[Chris_Lightfellow]

In my opinion, I do think that Sialeed and Lyon don't have to die

Actually, if you get all the SoD, Lyon doesn't die. I should also point out that one reason Zahak followed the Godwins might be because he is related to them and that Lord Godwin is the one who recommended him to the Queen's Knights in the first place.

[Lord_Amesius]

spoilers


She does attempt to use the Sun Rune after The Rune (not Arshtat) kills Ferid.... To destroy all of Falena, and George kills her before she can.





/spoilers


also rematch could make things worse.


1. They hire someone to kill Marina in the open and force Belcoot to protect her.


2. Use reason. ' It would seem her majesty favors foriegners as apposed to a legitimate Commander.' or ' Ferid is obviously manipulating her highness into allowing another foriegn commander '.

3. Use Nethergate

[27x4=108]

there's a thing i cant understand:

if only royal family can use the sun rune, why arshtat take it? why she didnt left the sun rune in a safe place ( hidden )

then the fear of godwin taking the sun rune, and arshtat burning all down disapears ( they know what the skills of sun rune was, the ppl of the runes-room in sol-falena know )

in the coup the sniper kill/hurt ferid, and georg and the others defeat the nether gate, arshtat could die, but sol-falena is safe/free

godwin comited treasure, barows forces help the royal family, lym or arshtat make short war and win easily, end of history


well, the entire plot is a spiral of consecuences, and all actions are 95% logic

[Oppenheimer]

I'm guessing it was a bigger risk to 'hide it' in case someone did find it than putting it in plain sight where no one can get it (on Arstat's forehead).

Also hiding it would have shown weakness and fear of it being stolen whereas wearing it does not give that impression.