Is the rune of punishment as powerful as the sun rune?

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:40 pm

Like Wraith said and Angelis said, it is impossible for one True Rune to be more powerful than another. It would disrupt the natural balance and harmony of the universe in which they ultimately stand for. The Sun Rune's power is just more prevalent and overt than the others and it's power has had a more apparent impact on the history of the world, hence it destroyed an entire country. You could say Leknaat is simply stating it has had a more prevalent impact based on the history of the known world. You must also realize that Leknaat does not have the complete history of True Runes, as well. Her knowledge is also subject to her own bias and experiences.

Calvin · Post by **Calvin** » Wed May 31, 2006 9:19 pm

Like Wraith said and Angelis said, it is impossible for one True Rune to be more powerful than another. It would disrupt the natural balance and harmony of the universe in which they ultimately stand for.

How so? You're assuming that all True Runes of equal power, when in reality you have no idea. Far as I'm concerned, all evidence points to them not having equal power. The True Runes don't have to be equal in power to maintain balance in the universe. Is the power of wind as powerful as the sun? No, but we seem to do alright.

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader · Wed May 31, 2006 9:30 pm

Well, you cannot mix apples and oranges without limit. Different runes, different elements, different functions that hold the suikoden universe together.

However, the level of mastery of the true rune can be a function of it's power. Better mastery, better control of it's power.

It's like Class 4,5 mutants who have mastered their skill from practice over time. That's how Iceman(Ice) can beat Pyro(Fire). 2 different elements with equal potential.

P.S. do Not go off-topic. PM me if you want to discuss X-men.

Joveeno · Post by **Joveeno** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:11 pm

Hm...
I think all True Runes are equal in power...

And I think the discussion of one True Rune overpowered another, is merely on the GAMEPLAY, not the theory of Suikoden World...

We haven't seen all the powers yet, and what we've seen just 4 of the spells that a True Rune holds...do we really know other spells beyond those 4 spells? No, we don't. And do we really believe that a True Rune that represents a certain aspects of the universe ONLY has 4 spells? No, I don't (dunno about you guys, though). The Rune of Life and Death, aka Soul Eater, for example. What we've seen it always takes life, but we never see it gives life. The Rune of Punishment, the last spell (I forgot, was it the Eternal Ordeal?) what we see is just a bit of the "forgiveness" in the rune...

Mlipana · Post by **Mlipana** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:32 am

I believe the Rune of Punishment's 4th level spell is called "Everlasting Mercy".

Chernigov · Post by **Chernigov** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:54 pm

Joveeno wrote:Hm...
I think all True Runes are equal in power...

And I think the discussion of one True Rune overpowered another, is merely on the GAMEPLAY, not the theory of Suikoden World...

We haven't seen all the powers yet, and what we've seen just 4 of the spells that a True Rune holds...do we really know other spells beyond those 4 spells? No, we don't. And do we really believe that a True Rune that represents a certain aspects of the universe ONLY has 4 spells? No, I don't (dunno about you guys, though). The Rune of Life and Death, aka Soul Eater, for example. What we've seen it always takes life, but we never see it gives life. The Rune of Punishment, the last spell (I forgot, was it the Eternal Ordeal?) what we see is just a bit of the "forgiveness" in the rune...

The Soul Eater brings Gerimo back to life, doesn't it?

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:19 pm

Chernigov wrote:
The Soul Eater brings Gerimo back to life, doesn't it?

That was a one time thing and it involved the 108 stars, Leknaat (thus likely the half gate rune) and the Soul Eater all working together like one big happy family.

StarBeamAlpha · Post by **StarBeamAlpha** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:10 pm

Oppenheimer wrote:
Chernigov wrote:
The Soul Eater brings Gerimo back to life, doesn't it?
That was a one time thing and it involved the 108 stars, Leknaat (thus likely the half gate rune) and the Soul Eater all working together like one big happy family.

Is the hero's true rune involved in the revival or is it just Leknaat + 108 stars?

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:13 pm

How so? You're assuming that all True Runes of equal power, when in reality you have no idea. Far as I'm concerned, all evidence points to them not having equal power. The True Runes don't have to be equal in power to maintain balance in the universe. Is the power of wind as powerful as the sun? No, but we seem to do alright.

Actually, I am not assuming anything. Just look at your last statement. You are assuming that the Sun's energy is more important to the world than the power of wind. I would say that you are making a faulty assumption. Both are equally as powerful. Without wind, there is no oxygen due to lack of air. There is no means for circulation, there is no means of cooling the atmosphere. Yes, the Sun can be hot and destructive, but the Wind acts as an equal buffer and is most certainly equally violent and powerful.

So, I don't see where you get this evidence to support your inclination. Each True Rune must be equal to curtail the power of the other and promote harmony. One can not exert its will over the other or it would demean the very nature of balance. So, it is not an assumption it is implicitly implied.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:31 pm

StarBeamAlpha wrote:Is the hero's true rune involved in the revival or is it just Leknaat + 108 stars?

I don't actually know, but since it ate Greimo's soul, it'd kinda have to return it, wouldn't it?

Edit: ohhh post 1111, that's fancy.

Chernigov · Post by **Chernigov** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:43 pm

Oppenheimer wrote:
StarBeamAlpha wrote:Is the hero's true rune involved in the revival or is it just Leknaat + 108 stars?
I don't actually know, but since it ate Greimo's soul, it'd kinda have to return it, wouldn't it?

Edit: ohhh post 1111, that's fancy.

OK I missed that one. I thought that Gerimo just got vaporized by that nasty gas, no soul eater rune intervention.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:49 am

Chernigov wrote:
Oppenheimer wrote:
StarBeamAlpha wrote:Is the hero's true rune involved in the revival or is it just Leknaat + 108 stars?
I don't actually know, but since it ate Greimo's soul, it'd kinda have to return it, wouldn't it?

Edit: ohhh post 1111, that's fancy.
OK I missed that one. I thought that Gerimo just got vaporized by that nasty gas, no soul eater rune intervention.

True Runes work in mysterious ways. They manipulate certain events( as small as they may be) to force the course of the future into what they want. It is the Soul Eater that made the pollen kill him. Not directly though. For example: Did Odessa get killed by the Soul Eater directly? What about Teo(you did see a light and stuff but he was going to die of injuries anyway)? The only one who was directly killed by the SOul Eater was Ted. This is how the Soul Eater works. He kills people that are dear to the bearer but not always directly.

BJ · Post by BJ » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:59 am

Interesting topic I'll say that much. It is hard to judge which exactly is correct. The Sun Rune is indeed a powerful Rune but I can't say I'd think it is the most powerful, however I think it does have a much higher balance over some of the other 27 True Runes. It just works differently. See with the Sun Rune. We were shown right from the beginning its awesome and incredible power. Arshtat many times threatened to destroy Felena with it and we all know she destroyed Lordlake because of that Rune. With the other runes, namely the Soul Eater for example. We only saw bits and pieces of what that rune could do.

The Soul Eater was mixed in with game mechanics and brought down in power so you were not horribly overpowered during the game. The Sun Rune is completely story based and therefore can be powered up or down as the written sees fit. Seeing as the Soul Eater rune grows more powerful through death and the eating of souls. If a truly heartless person that wanted to kill everyone in his/her path got ahold of that rune. I believe in may out power even the Sun Rune. The Soul Eater rune just takes time to increase in power. The Sun Rune increases in power much faster and therefore seems to be much stronger. Think if Luca Blight had the Soul Eater. With the amount of people he's killed and would galdy kill. The Soul Eater would have unquestionable power. It's a hard argument to make, as to what runes if any are better then the Sun Rune or if the Sun Rune isn't all as powerful as it's made to look.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:17 pm

It is hard to judge which exactly is correct. The Sun Rune is indeed a powerful Rune but I can't say I'd think it is the most powerful, however I think it does have a much higher balance over some of the other 27 True Runes.

Ehm... Balance is balance. There are no degree's of balance. Thats the POINT of balance.

modi · Post by **modi** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:47 am

i too agree that all true runes are the same in power but it some of them are more stable than others .
let's start with the sun rune :it's power causes the bearer to be out of control (not insane)like what happened to arshtat ,but when someone masters it like the king of the ancient armes kingdom that does not happen but when the king became insane (most likely he became evil and greedy with the prosperity and wealth the sun rune gave him and i think it's not the sun rune which made him go insane)it became angry and unstable so it destroyed half of the continent.and i think this unstability was born when it's ties with the night rune were cut off

the rune of punishment:it's a very stable rune and could easily used (but not necissary to it's full power)but if it didn't like the bearer it will simply kill him but if it liked him like wht happened to lazlo he will be able to unleash it's full power which as we saw a lot of naval fleets .

the true fire rune:it destroyed a whole army when it was with the flame champion and i guess that's enough to show it's power.

so all the runes are powerfull but they differ by stability and how the bearer will master it