Is the rune of punishment as powerful as the sun rune?

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
Dura Sinai
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Post by Dura Sinai »

patapi wrote:Sun Rune and Night Rune supposedly maintained a symbiotic relationship once. That wouldn't work if the former's power was supposed to so strong that no other True Rune could get near it.
One thing we see a lot of with teh True runes is, as others have stated, balance. Sun and Night are an example. Order and Change are another, The five elements. The ise behind the true runes is that they are the components of the Suikoden world. You need all of them in harmony to exist.

However, manifestations are not equal. We know that the True Runes have a will of their own. They choose their own bearer and we have heard so many stories about various curses associated. The sun rune is an epitome of energy and light. It is simply a more force dominated rune, when coupled by it being unable to be fully controlled by a human bearer, can have devistating effects. Now, based on what we know of say, the Dragon Rune... we know it allows creatures from another world/dimension to exist in this world. It's focus in all likleyhood is not outward force.

A rune's effectiveness can also be determined by the bearer's abilities. Here is where the elemental runes prove as an example. Assuming the Flame Champion is Hugo, when he receives the rune he isn't a great mage and his affinity with the element is average. Put Suikoden III Hugo vs Geddoe with True Lightning or Sasarai with True Earth, Hugo would probably get humiliated. Why is this? Is the Fire Rune weaker? No. But it is understandable that he would have less control of a rune when compared to someone who had it for 50-60 years in Geddoe's case or is particualrly skilled in magic like Sasarai who has had the rune his entire life. That could change over time.

The Sun and Dawn rune existing also does not necessarily point toward the Sun rune being stronger. We have seen offshoots of True runes. Many of the strongest one such as second tier elemental spells, pale gate, darkness, condemnation etc are pretty rare. It is assumed that the star rune is a unique companion to the night rune. Having unique runes borne off of it though is very likely the way to control the sun rune's influences. Much like how the rune of punishment also has the atonement stage and Suikoden 4 introduced a blance chart for the five elements.

So yep, long story short, the Suikoden world is all about balance. Some runes might seem more physically devastating than others but in the end, there is always something that counteracts any great power.
Hiyato
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Post by Hiyato »

*SI, SIV, and SV spoilers!*

Soul Eater: With 108 Stars Revives Gremio
Beginning/Black Sword/Bright Shield: With 108 stars and good decision-making Restores friendship of HeroII, Jowy, and Nanami.
Punishment: With 108 Stars Revives HeroIV
Dawn/Twilight/Sun: With 108 Stars Revives Lyon (I really don't understand this one too well though, if someone could clarify?)

I am also unclear if Zerase's Star Rune could have a similar effect to the True Night Rune that the Dawn/Twilight Runes have on the True Sun Rune. If so, could Zerase's absense be the cause of the True Night Rune (as the Star Dragon Sword) having such a bad attitude?

It's interesting to note that the bearer of the Star Rune, somehow derivative of the True Night Rune, was an important character in the Sun Rune War. Also interesting to note that Zerase is (I believe) a disciple of Leknaat.

It seems that the entirely damaging runes however (Soul Eater, Punishment, Sun) all have their "forgiveness" sides that manifest themselves with 108 stars of destiny.

So are there True Runes that are more powerful than others? The answer remains no. Those which do not directly show great healing or destructive power have other consequence linked to them: for example the Dragon Rune having all Dragons die if the bearer dies.
~Hiyato
Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

Punishment: With 108 Stars Revives HeroIV
Thats not completely correct. The Rune of Punishment went to Forgivement Phase before El Eal so it stopped sucking his life. Thats all. It didn't ressurect himself.
Rune of Illusion
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Post by Rune of Illusion »

I agree with Dura Sinai. The runes are a outward manisfestation of the powers that be in the Suikoden world. Granted, these manisfestations are not completely equal in power. For example, the Gate Rune is supposedly very powerful so is the Punishment Rune and the Sun Rune, but they are all negated by the Sovereign Rune.
you can learn more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.
Falenan_descent
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Post by Falenan_descent »

I don't believe all the true runes are equal in power. If you look at the spells from the Soul Eater compared to the Rune of Punishment the Soul Eater is gonna come out on top every time...
modi
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Post by modi »

i don't think the gameplay spells shows the whole power of a true rune ,as an example the rune of punishment's power to destroy naval fleets was not a usable spell
Magnumkiller
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Post by Magnumkiller »

Gah too many long replies too lazy to read all.

About the True Runes, Arshtat controlled the Sun Rune for 2 years, and became crazy and sick with power. Also, the Sun Rune apparently has been in the 'ruling' family of the continent since forever (even Sindar times) so it is quiet possible that it has had time to bend the land to its will to some extent (Keeping true runes away, if that is true. Can't remember that)

Other runes, we only got sneak peaks of them. But remember from Suikoden 3, in which it is said that destroying 1 True Rune could destroy a continent. I doubt it is possible to destroy a True Rune, but they can possible be forced to unleash all of their power, which would have results similar to those of the Sun Rune with Ancient Armes.

We got the True Fire Rune for an example. It killed loads of soldiers with a minor outburst of its strength. The Rune of punishment wiped out entire fleets, although its nature relies on the life of its user. It also protected the Obel fleets after the last battle.

The Bright Shield and Black Sword? They can cause nations to go to war. What else is better than that? Actually, they are stronger than that! Joey uses the Black Sword to keep the True Beast Rune at bay. If you can stop a True Rune, you know something is going on.

True Sovereign Rune? Immunity to magic. Thats probably all I have to say about it. And it also probably allows the wielder to be a good ruler, but remember that Barbarossa is being controlled by Windy and thus corruption exists.

The True Gate Rune? Summon and endless army of demons. How much better can it get?

Souleater? Eat people's souls and gets stronger. You had it for only a while, and were able to use only some of its power. But look at Ted. Even without having it he made it absorb his soul. If you had as much time as Ted with the rune and actually used it, you would probably be able to absorb armies.

Someone said something about controlling the True Beast Rune and the elemental runes. Luc used 'containers' of sorts that where like the ones used to create him and Sasarai, both wielders of True Runes. So its like inserting a True Rune on someone. If Jeanne managed to do it with the Twilight rune, why can't someone with knowledge and a true rune like Luc do it with other true runes?

The true runes are equally strong, but they don't show it as often as it requires the person's ability and probably the runes willingness. Lets take Arshtat. The Sun Rune controlled her, so she pretty much had free access to the rune's power. Later on, the Godwin's release the Sun Rune's power, but they are stopped by 'lesser' runes, which keep the Sun Rune's insanity under control.
Wraith
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Post by Wraith »


True Sovereign Rune? Immunity to magic. Thats probably all I have to say about it. And it also probably allows the wielder to be a good ruler, but remember that Barbarossa is being controlled by Windy and thus corruption exists.
Actually, Barbarosa was faking it.

The Bright Shield and Black Sword? They can cause nations to go to war. What else is better than that? Actually, they are stronger than that! Joey uses the Black Sword to keep the True Beast Rune at bay. If you can stop a True Rune, you know something is going on.
The BSR and DBR are not True Runes. The Beginning Rune is a True Rune but its powers are unknown.
Magnumkiller
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Post by Magnumkiller »

My point exactly. If the True Rune separated in two is strong enough to mantain an actual True Rune in place, then the whole rune should be able to do quiet some damage.

And I know Barbarossa was faking that he was being controlled, but faking it and being it, if you still do the things the result is the same.
Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

Magnumkiller wrote: And I know Barbarossa was faking that he was being controlled, but faking it and being it, if you still do the things the result is the same.
Yes, but he did it out of love.

Aaaaaaw. Love is as powerfull as the Black Rune >_<

Seriously though, were talking about the power of True Runes. And regardless of him taking orders from Windy or not the Sovereign rune DID work and the effects of the Black Rune were negated
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patapi
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Post by patapi »

Magnumkiller wrote:Joey uses the Black Sword to keep the True Beast Rune at bay. If you can stop a True Rune, you know something is going on.
Is this a fact?

Leknaat's half of the Gate Rune couldn't overcome Luc's full rune, yet Jowy could? Inconcievable.
Magnumkiller
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Post by Magnumkiller »

According to what I remember, Jowy was keeping the True Beast Rune at bay in the Highland castle, although it was slowly killing him.

Thats why when you arrive Leon Silverberg activates the True Rune, since it had been awakened by Luca, only the hero and his party could defeat the thing and send it to rest somewhere else.
anokosa
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Post by anokosa »

not only that, he saw something(forgive me if im wrong, i havent played III) about the future concerning him and his true rune, such as destruction, so tried to stop it by removing the twr.
Jowy Atreides
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Leknaat's said that fate is changeable, and it's been proven, so even if the True Wind Rune's vision is "correct", it can be changed. It may have been a trick on the True Rune's end to get Luc to do what he did.
anokosa
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Post by anokosa »

ahhh. like voldemort and harry in order of the pheonix. just to manipulate?
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