Which ending do you want to be canon?*spoilers*

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
Magnumkiller
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Post by Magnumkiller »

Too many big posts to read through them all.

Just one thing. Did anyone remember the part in which Lucretia says 'He won't be needing me anymore' after Sialeeds dies? It is obvious the prince knows how to command an army now.

Even IF the prince would not be useful for politics, you can always do with an able commander of your army, and who more loyal and more protective of you if not your brother himself? As he is shown throughout the game, he would give his life to save Lym, no better bodyguard than that.

Besides, remember that the prince has influence on pretty much over half the population of Falena, and has made aquitance with many of those persons, giving him importance for politics. I know I sure as hell would want his opinion on a discussion, seeing as he restored the whole nation.

His staying with Lym makes more sense, even if the ending movie was lacking of 108 stars.
David Holmes

Post by David Holmes »

Canon?

I think the entire idea of being "canon" in the Suikoden series is ridiculous. The very point of having some games able to load data from others is that there doesn't HAVE to be a "canon" storyline.

Suikoden V in particular gives you tons of choices that come to define the character of the Prince. The very fact that these choices determine the ending make it meaningless to try and infer an ending from the Prince's personality.

There's no reason for Konami to deem one ending "official".
Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

David Holmes wrote:Canon?

I think the entire idea of being "canon" in the Suikoden series is ridiculous. The very point of having some games able to load data from others is that there doesn't HAVE to be a "canon" storyline.

Suikoden V in particular gives you tons of choices that come to define the character of the Prince. The very fact that these choices determine the ending make it meaningless to try and infer an ending from the Prince's personality.

There's no reason for Konami to deem one ending "official".
EDIT: Ehm. i only just found out your point. But they NEED to have a canon conclusion for the novel.
David Holmes

Post by David Holmes »

Not at all: because they can consider the novels themselves to be non-canon (which I think they should).

edit: Oh, but if we were to discuss which ending should be selected for the novel, then obviously it would depend on which character the Prince is give, but I'm leaning towards the "leave with Georg" ending. I personally prefer the "stay" ending but the "leave" one seems more dramatic to me.
YouKnowYouGeddoe
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Post by YouKnowYouGeddoe »

At a certain point, though, I predict that the games' ability to support "multiple canons" will be overwhelmed by the multiplicity of canonical possibilities - in other words, I think that a single canon is necessary because the "tree" of alternate canons will quickly stretch its branches to unamanageable proportions.

For instance, let's assume for a moment that Konami continues to support multiple canons via saved game importation. A game that takes place after Suikoden III will either have to include three Flame Champion scenarios OR deal only in the vaguest possible manner with the issue of the Flame Champion. Likewise, this game will either have to include both "Prince goes to Northern Continent" and "Prince stays in Falena" possibilities OR neglect the Prince altogether. In other words, the number of branches balloons, especially if we consider the likes of Gremio, Lazlo, and Nanami - all significant characters whose futures fork depending on the endings of their respective games. If we want future games to be inclusive of historical events, which I certainly do, I think Konami has to settle on a canon.

For what it's worth, I think Gremio's revival is canon, and I'm pretty sure Nanami officially survives. We won't know until a post-III Suikoden is made, but I foresee Hugo as the canonic flame champion; if the Prince gets mentioned again (which I think he probably will be), I feel that Konami will probably commit to one of his posssible branches. Personally I think he'll stick around with Lym, but I can't marshall any real evidence for that. It's not like he has a strongly delineated characterization from which we can extrapolate his behavior; he is, after all, a silent hero.

Maybe the PS3 will be able to handle this kind of thing easily, but not on a Suikoden production budget.
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Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

Hugo IS the canonical Fire Champion. Not only because its logical but because he is so in the manga wich could be considered as canon as the novels(but only for major events).
Adagerad

Post by Adagerad »

YouKnowYouGeddoe wrote:At a certain point, though, I predict that the games' ability to support "multiple canons" will be overwhelmed by the multiplicity of canonical possibilities - in other words, I think that a single canon is necessary because the "tree" of alternate canons will quickly stretch its branches to unamanageable proportions.
That point can occur in the very first sequel. For an example of a disastrous attempt in a sequel to account for multiple endings in a previous game, see Knights of the Old Republic II. The story was an unfinished, jumbled mess partly because the developers were too preoccupied with incorporating minor variations into the story based on the original game's multiple endings.

See also Deux Ex: Invisible War, which unsatisfyingly merged the original game's three endings instead of simply selecting one ending as the basis for the sequel's story.

Both of these examples are first sequels. Imagine how pronounced the problem of branching outcomes would be for a multi-game series like Suikoden.
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patapi
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Post by patapi »

Rule of thumb: The succesful gathering of the 108 Stars ending is always the canon ending. It was a straightforward criterion, as all previous games only have one 108 Stars ending.

Suikoden V, however, has two 108 Stars endings.
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ShardStar
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Post by ShardStar »

In the end does it really matter if the prince leaves or not? I mean if he leaves in the ending he can always go back and if he stays he can always go adventuring later. Besides by the time we got to SII the Prince is no longer traveling with Georg. I think as far as the ending is concenred, the Prince could have traveled with Lyon and then returned to become head of the Queen's Knights or have stayed in the kingdom and traveled with Lyon later. When we play 6 it will probably be vague at best about what the Prince specfically did after the civil war.

As for FC I too think it will be Hugo, you don't even need the Manga to think that. As much as I didn't like Hugo I know that it's more appropriate for him to have been FC then Geddoe or Chris. I think they give you choice to either for gameplay and varied story experience and also to see Parallel storylines of how things could go.

I didn't find KoTor II's handling to be bad it was an effective way to try different possiblities quickly. Though I guess to some that would cheapen the experience. I do much prefer the loading of data though, it feels like I'm being rewarded.

Considering that we may not be able to load data for S6 I think they will go with some vague details on who was FC in the second war and probably not even care if the Prince left Falena or not.
Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

I didn't find KoTor II's handling to be bad it was an effective way to try different possiblities quickly. Though I guess to some that would cheapen the experience. I do much prefer the loading of data though, it feels like I'm being rewarded.
KOTOR 2 was rushed at the end. They even had to take out an ENTIRE planet and endings(probably animated) for all characters. Who knows what else. The mulitple endings got screwed the most in KOTOR 2 I think. Cmone... there is NO closure whatsoever.
Masamune
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Post by Masamune »

Suikoden 2 has three 108 Stars endings though. Rule Dunan, beat the hell out of Jowy, or go buddy buddy with him and Nanami.

As much as I like the Leave with Georg ending, the stay with Lym ending is exclusive only to 108 stars and I'd say that, like the 'go buddy buddy with Jowy ending', is the canon one.
Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

Masamune wrote:Suikoden 2 has three 108 Stars endings though. Rule Dunan, beat the hell out of Jowy, or go buddy buddy with him and Nanami.

As much as I like the Leave with Georg ending, the stay with Lym ending is exclusive only to 108 stars and I'd say that, like the 'go buddy buddy with Jowy ending', is the canon one.
Those first two you told are considered non-108 SoD's endings since that you can have them any way.
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ShardStar
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Post by ShardStar »

Wraith wrote:
I didn't find KoTor II's handling to be bad it was an effective way to try different possiblities quickly. Though I guess to some that would cheapen the experience. I do much prefer the loading of data though, it feels like I'm being rewarded.
KOTOR 2 was rushed at the end. They even had to take out an ENTIRE planet and endings(probably animated) for all characters. Who knows what else. The mulitple endings got screwed the most in KOTOR 2 I think. Cmone... there is NO closure whatsoever.
I felt plenty closure when I beat the game, Darth what's her name even gave an entire monolgue about it. She tells you how each character ends up so long as you ask about said character. That was closure enough for me.

And I think that was Masamune's point about the non-108 endings not being the canon ending. That the gathering's of the entire 108 stars is the correct endings. At least as far as S1-2 are concerned.
Masamune
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Post by Masamune »

Wraith wrote:
Masamune wrote:Suikoden 2 has three 108 Stars endings though. Rule Dunan, beat the hell out of Jowy, or go buddy buddy with him and Nanami.

As much as I like the Leave with Georg ending, the stay with Lym ending is exclusive only to 108 stars and I'd say that, like the 'go buddy buddy with Jowy ending', is the canon one.
Those first two you told are considered non-108 SoD's endings since that you can have them any way.
Bingo. That was exactly the point I was making about the SV ending.
modi
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Post by modi »

i think the cannon should be that the prince would leave with george .
first at the start of the game when it is mentioned by sialeeds that male royalty are not that important in Falena the prince looked sad .
secondly he wanted to discover his heritage in the island nations.
thirdly george sent him a message about how dwarves differs in falena and the northern contienent and that there are many things he should dicover in the northern continient.

but after all i don't think he will spend much time ou there becuase in suikoden II George showed up without the prince or lyon so they might got back at that time .
but also George might left them in the northern continient to discover it by themselves .and they might join a regional conflict too since it will make them learn more about the northern continient and it's history.
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