Why some stars....?

[Sasarai_valixz]

Hi,
I just want an answer for Konami inconsistancy(in my opinion, ehem)
Lets see :
1. Chikei Star
Zen-Bob-Sanae Y.-Kevin-Subala
2. Chisou Star
Sarah-Ayda-Anne-Pam-Urda
3. Chido Star
Ledon-Sid-Landis-Igor-Byakuren
4. Chikai Star
Esmeralda-Simone-Gau-Bang-Luserina
My question:
Look at them and maybe there's more stars that the character which positioned in it doesn't have some sort of correlation at all.
Like
1. Whats the connection between Zen(gardener)-Bob(werebeast)-Sanae Y.(Freed's daughter, looks like she only here because konami don't have any other idea)-Kevin(Cook)-Subala(fisher girl)
Recklessness??
2. Sarah(A lazy maid)-Ayda(A forest ranger)-Anne(Barkeep)-Pam (Kevin's wife)-Urda(hot elf archer)?
Guess there's none of their similiarities
3. Ledon (a bandit or sumthin'?)-Sid(strange wingers)-Landis(strange wingers)-Igor(fool nerdy guy who runs a hotbath)-Byakuren (an astray female snake)?
4. Esmeralda(narcist woman)-Simone(Same as Esmeralda, but he's a man)-Gau(A kobold?? is he a narcist?)-Bang(The old-bored man)-Luserina (now that's what I called the star of gathering)

Maybe there's more of them, could anyone explain why is konami so inconsistent?

THX

[patapi]

Moving this to Suikoden V section, due to Tablet of Stars spoilers.

1. Whats the connection between Zen(gardener)-Bob(werebeast)-Sanae Y.(Freed's daughter, looks like she only here because konami don't have any other idea)-Kevin(Cook)-Subala(fisher girl)
Recklessness??

Zhanq Qin, the original owner of this star, was originally a gardener and later set up a tavern selling meat buns. That's where the inspiration for Zen and Kevin's characters came from. The others seem random.

2. Sarah(A lazy maid)-Ayda(A forest ranger)-Anne(Barkeep)-Pam (Kevin's wife)-Urda(hot elf archer)?
Guess there's none of their similiarities

Sun Er Niang. Zhang Qin's wife, who once ran a meat bun tavern with him. One of the very few female officers in the original legend. Pam's reference is obvious, and Anne runs a tavern. Ayda was one of the few female generals, and I suppose Urda followed her footsteps as an arrow-happy forest guardian. Sarah was may be an exception, but I suppose laundry support is important as well.

3. Ledon (a bandit or sumthin'?)-Sid(strange wingers)-Landis(strange wingers)-Igor(fool nerdy guy who runs a hotbath)-Byakuren (an astray female snake)?

All eccentric/strange characters. No real link. Li Li wasn't that outstanding either.

4. Esmeralda(narcist woman)-Simone(Same as Esmeralda, but he's a man)-Gau(A kobold?? is he a narcist?)-Bang(The old-bored man)-Luserina (now that's what I called the star of gathering)

Seems utterly random. The Esmeralda-Simone-Luserina link might suggest something along the line of the tertiary narcissism star, but who knows. Bang's lottery might have something to with the Mathematics side of Jiang Jing's character. As for Gau, he's clearly an exception, unless Kobolds consider badass mercenaries as having narcissistic tendency.

[Philweasel]

Bang's lottery might have something to with the Mathematics side of Jiang Jing's character.

Luserina was obviously a mathematician herself, as her father notes that she virtually runs the place (Which makes me wonder, she complains later in the game that she has nothing to do. Considering she used to run the Barrow’s family finances I find this rather unusual, who the hell is feeding and paying all these soldiers anyway?) Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Gau was the Ace of Duke’s unit, doing all the payroll and stuff. He’s also quite well dressed for a Kobold.

Perhaps Esmeralda and Simone were hiding secret mathematical talent?

[patapi]

Bang's lottery might have something to with the Mathematics side of Jiang Jing's character.

Luserina was obviously a mathematician herself, as her father notes that she virtually runs the place (Which makes me wonder, she complains later in the game that she has nothing to do. Considering she used to run the Barrow’s family finances I find this rather unusual, who the hell is feeding and paying all these soldiers anyway?)

Excellent note on Luserina. It fits her character quite well.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Gau was the Ace of Duke’s unit, doing all the payroll and stuff. He’s also quite well dressed for a Kobold.

I can agree with the latter part. But perhaps there is a definite note of him being the bookkeeper of Duke's unit somewhere? That would definitely fit him well under the star.

Perhaps Esmeralda and Simone were hiding secret mathematical talent?

Who knows. For one, they never mention such a thing in the game, at least.

[Koredju]

The two of them come by asking an item who cost a lot of money if you see well

[Kirin]

Has anyone ever actually written up a FAQ/guide to the connections or shared traits for the stars? A lot of them are pretty obvious just from looking at the 108 stars page on the site here, but I'm wondering if anyone's ever laid it out in writing. I had a brief temptation to do so in my imaginary free time. Patapi, you seem to have an awfully good grasp of this stuff - including the original Chinese legend characters, who I know almost nothing about.

[DeathQuaker]

A couple weeks ago when I was avoiding cleaning my apartment, I compiled a list of all of the Stars and how they seem to be related (wanted to post for discussion eventually here, but thought about waiting till it's okay to post in the "Character Theories" section since it's about all of the characters in all of the games). Some of the stars have _very_ consistent character placements (an obvious one like Tenki, always your primary strategist), but others can be rather random. Of the ones the OP mentioned, these are the STRETCHED connections I could find:

Sarah-Ayda-Anne-Pam-Urda

All are female "caretakers" of a sort... of the forest, of the inn, of the laundry... (but you know what I mean ).

Esmeralda-Simone-Gau-Bang-Luserina

As mentioned, Esmeralda, Simone, and Luserina are all of a noble background. Gau isn't "noble" but seems to be very honor-bound. And if, constantly situated across from Jeane's Rune Stall, all Bang worries about is if poor Jeane is cold in that outfit she's wearing, then he's definitely a "gentleman" of some variety. So honorable and/or noble and/or courteous folk live at this star.

There were some additional stars I was wondering about in Suiko V--

Logg and Lun are put in the "animal-people" pair stars--i.e., Rhett and Wilder, Nalkul and Champo, and two pairs of Kobolds from I and II. What the heck??

And likewise, Lance and Flail (the Dragonhorses) are put in the "Fisherman" stars (Tai Yo and Yam Koo's/Ugetsu and Shiramine's stars). I think Lance is supposed to like fish but...

I wonder if these two pairs accidentally got switched? 'Cause it makes more sense for Logg and Lun to be the "Fisherman" pair. (Or Lun and Subala, for that matter, but I'd figure I'd stick with what had already been done.)

[Edit: misspelled a star]

[Sasarai_valixz]

Well, Logg and Lun may seem to fit with the term smart-arrogant and funny-stupid Duo then.

Flail and Lance, guess konami really put out the fisherman's term and change it into aquatic term, and the duo seems fit well.

Then I realize this again, Geddoe, he's in the women star?? guess he's there for completeing the trio, like ...

Geddoe
Melville
Ace
Alanis
Queen
Elliot

Do I correct?

Patapi, you are really amazing I dunno bout the Sui Hu Zhuan legend that detail either.
But Subala...could anyone explain it?

How bout Clive-Clive-Yun-Travis-Haswar?

Yun and Haswar seems fit but why are they in that star??


[/b]

[DeathQuaker]

Well, Logg and Lun may seem to fit with the term smart-arrogant and funny-stupid Duo then.

Maybe... those slots do tend to serve some form of comic relief... still seems kinda odd.

Flail and Lance, guess konami really put out the fisherman's term and change it into aquatic term, and the duo seems fit well.

Eh... I wouldn't say "fit well" but maybe better than Ace and Queen (though I can really imagine them fishing together ).

Then I realize this again, Geddoe, he's in the women star?? guess he's there for completeing the trio, like ...

Geddoe
Melville
Ace
Alanis
Queen
Elliot

Do I correct?

I'm not sure what you're getting at... All of the people you list are in Suiko 3, and Melville, Alanis, and Elliot are in the "Trio" slot (same as, say, Rina, Eilie, and Bolgan; or Lo Fong, Lo Seng, and Lo Hak; or the three dudes from Lelcar). While Ace and Queen are paired together in the "Fishermen" stars, Geddoe isn't really a "trio" with them (a quintet along w/ Joker and Jacque...) OTOH, Bernadette also gets two underlings but in different stars.

In some ways Geddoe's star is the "Sub-Commander/Right Hand" sort of star... Sonya's a supporting general, Nanami is sister and chief cohort of Riou, Geddoe is a lieutenant of the Flame Champion (unless you make him FC, of course), Katarina is Second-in-Command of the Razril Knights, and Bernadette is right hand/supporter/representative of her father.

Also, the last three (Geddoe, Katarina, and Bernadette) are all solidly good mages.

How bout Clive-Clive-Yun-Travis-Haswar?

Yun and Haswar seems fit but why are they in that star??

Don't know how they connect to Shi Hu Zhuan, but aren't all of those characters found in some sacred place/important ruin? Clive's the vampire hunter who I think is found in some old ruin/castle (???), Yun's the priestess in the sacred secret hold of Alma Kinan; Travis is hanging out in the Obel Ruins, and Haswar of course is the Oracle of Lunas.

[xXSqualleoNXx]

How bout Clive-Clive-Yun-Travis-Haswar?

Yun and Haswar seems fit but why are they in that star??

Don't know how they connect to Shi Hu Zhuan, but aren't all of those characters found in some sacred place/important ruin? Clive's the vampire hunter who I think is found in some old ruin/castle (???), Yun's the priestess in the sacred secret hold of Alma Kinan; Travis is hanging out in the Obel Ruins, and Haswar of course is the Oracle of Lunas.

Clive is the Howling Voice Guild guy who was in pursuit of renegade Elza and eventually kills her in Suikoden II. There's no real relation between them.

[Koredju]

Travis become the new ruin's guardian at the end of suikoden4

You can say he get to the head of the ruins guardian, every one of them is guardian of organisation and/or a temple

[xXSqualleoNXx]

Travis become the new ruin's guardian at the end of suikoden4

You can say he get to the head of the ruins guardian, every one of them is guardian of organisation and/or a temple

Hmm, good observation. Clive would be the Guardian of HVG. Even more if he did become the leader of HVG in the cannon story.

[DeathQuaker]

Travis become the new ruin's guardian at the end of suikoden4

You can say he get to the head of the ruins guardian, every one of them is guardian of organisation and/or a temple

Hmm, good observation. Clive would be the Guardian of HVG. Even more if he did become the leader of HVG in the cannon story.

Ah yes, I misremembered who Clive was (a lot of the non-core characters blur together in my mind). But thanks for making it make sense.

[patapi]

It'd be interesting if someone could not only detail out the relationship between stars across the game, but also include the original stars in the equation.

Logg and Lun are put in the "animal-people" pair stars--i.e., Rhett and Wilder, Nalkul and Champo, and two pairs of Kobolds from I and II. What the heck??

No idea. Sounds like they are meant for comic relief characters in this series. However, we do know that the original Zou pair were an uncle-nephew pair, which might explain the connection between pairs like Kuromimi-Gon, Gengen-Gabocha, Nalkul-Champo and Logg-Lun. Rhett-Wilder aren't family, are they?

And likewise, Lance and Flail (the Dragonhorses) are put in the "Fisherman" stars (Tai Yo and Yam Koo's/Ugetsu and Shiramine's stars). I think Lance is supposed to like fish but...

I wonder if these two pairs accidentally got switched? 'Cause it makes more sense for Logg and Lun to be the "Fisherman" pair. (Or Lun and Subala, for that matter, but I'd figure I'd stick with what had already been done.)

These two stars were originally owned by a pair of boatman/swimmer/fisherman brothers. The swimmer part kinda makes them suitable for those Dragon-Horses, but who can say? I do think that Logg-Lun belongs to the earlier pair of stars better though, given their plot roles as comic relief.

Then I realize this again, Geddoe, he's in the women star?? guess he's there for completeing the trio, like ...

Geddoe
Melville
Ace
Alanis
Queen
Elliot

Interestingly enough, Li Jun was another excellent naval commander. Sonya, Katarina and Bernadette all fit this theme nicely. Li Jun also has strong connections with the Zhang brothers, which might explain why Geddoe was under this star and Ace-Queen took the Zhangs' stars. And, so far, while nowhere near as dedicated as Tenkan or Chizen, these four characters were some of the strongest mages on your side.

Thus far, Nanami looks like she might end up as an exception. But, do remember that the other four also have a significant relationship with the main characters of each of their games. Sonya was Teo's girl, Geddoe's was a very close friend of the original Flame Champion as well as a great support to both Hugo (and the leading figure of a number of forces that were brought together Thomas, the Tenkai), Katarina was the daughter of a man who gave a lot of care towards Hero IV (Glen was like one of the three father figures to him...), Bernadette was the Prince's aunt. By the same token, Nanami is the adopted sister.

As for the other trio, that's quite easily the leading group of three among the 108 Stars of Destiny. Anji-Kanak-Leonardo being pirates and naval specialists was probably the closest we could get to the original trio. But, the Lo siblings' being con-artists, as well as the lords of Lelcar islets' association with water might not be too far off as well. Especially the latter, who also served you well as generals in the army. The Grassies were siblings, even though Bolgan wasn't related by blood.

The St Loa Knights had the least similarities, but I suppose the "group of three" theme was more than enough correlation.

How bout Clive-Clive-Yun-Travis-Haswar?

Yun and Haswar seems fit but why are they in that star??

Zhang Qing, the Featherless Arrow, gained his nickname from being a bandit whose skills with throwing stones was so great that his shots were no different than arrows. Hence Clive and Travis. Which makes Yun and Haswar curious candidates under this star.

Also, Clive wasn't found in any ruins. He was in Rikon in S1, and later found in Muse/South Window in S2. However, he did end up as the Chief of HVG, who are supposedly HQed at some place called the Tower.

[DeathQuaker]

It'd be interesting if someone could not only detail out the relationship between stars across the game, but also include the original stars in the equation.

In the list I compiled, I include the names of the original stars, but not having any idea of who they are, I didn't include how the Suikoden characters relate. It basically lists the Water Margin characters, the RPG characters, and then my opinion/analysis of how the the characters are related.

Question (especially to you, Patapi, as wise person and board mod): I would like to post the list I compiled at some point. Would you (or someone else knowledgeable of the Water Margin novel) be interested in reviewing it first to compare the characters to the original, or should I just post it up here and let people chip in as they well?

The list is comprehensive of all the SODs in the RPGs. I was kind of wanting to put it in "Character Analysis/Theories" but as of now I think since it includes Suiko V characters, it would have to be here, right? (Unless I wait, which is what I was originally going to do, but since it was brought up... I'm tempted to post it now.)

Logg and Lun are put in the "animal-people" pair stars--i.e., Rhett and Wilder, Nalkul and Champo, and two pairs of Kobolds from I and II. What the heck??

No idea. Sounds like they are meant for comic relief characters in this series. However, we do know that the original Zou pair were an uncle-nephew pair, which might explain the connection between pairs like Kuromimi-Gon, Gengen-Gabocha, Nalkul-Champo and Logg-Lun. Rhett-Wilder aren't family, are they?

I don't think Rhett-Wilder are related, though I think they're in the same unit or whatever.

And likewise, Lance and Flail (the Dragonhorses) are put in the "Fisherman" stars (Tai Yo and Yam Koo's/Ugetsu and Shiramine's stars). I think Lance is supposed to like fish but...

I wonder if these two pairs accidentally got switched? 'Cause it makes more sense for Logg and Lun to be the "Fisherman" pair. (Or Lun and Subala, for that matter, but I'd figure I'd stick with what had already been done.)

These two stars were originally owned by a pair of boatman/swimmer/fisherman brothers. The swimmer part kinda makes them suitable for those Dragon-Horses, but who can say? I do think that Logg-Lun belongs to the earlier pair of stars better though, given their plot roles as comic relief.

I'd still think Logg and Lun fit in better with the fishermen. It's not like Tai Yo and Yam Koo were exactly serious figures, let alone Ace and Queen or Shiramine and Ugetsu. And while they don't run it, Logg and Lun do participate in the fishing minigame, which are run by the Fishermen stars in II and IV. But who knows? It all works, at least a little.

How bout Clive-Clive-Yun-Travis-Haswar?

Yun and Haswar seems fit but why are they in that star??

Zhang Qing, the Featherless Arrow, gained his nickname from being a bandit whose skills with throwing stones was so great that his shots were no different than arrows. Hence Clive and Travis. Which makes Yun and Haswar curious candidates under this star. [/quote]

It's interesting that they are similar to each other, but not the other folks in this star.

Also, Clive wasn't found in any ruins.

Yes, I'd already noted I'd misremembered who he was.