Harmonian firearms development

[Seink]

Ok, here's another one of the plotholes i think.....i

Guns & weapons:

In Sui 1 & 2, we see Clive hunting for Elza with his gun "Storm".At the Sui2 ending, Clive became the Leader of Howling Guild.

In Suikogaiden, Nash's "brother-in-law" Zaj uses short gun as part of his weapons.It i evident that Harmonia has the technology to manufacture guns.

In Sui3, throughout the whole game that i played, i have never spott any character who uses guns as weapon.Or in another interpretation, Harmonia did not storm grassland with Ak-47s or short Rifles.

Sui2 & 3 is a 15 yrs difference, and Harmonia fail to find a way to even make a squadron of marching rifles??????Not to mention that 15 yrs is sufficient to industrialize and develop AK-47s.......

[Lord Tsubaki]

The Howling Voice Guild knows the secret to gun powder, not Harmonia, and Zaj was a squire class gunner of the HVG.

[Hxc Flavor]

gunpowder and fire arms were created in the 15th or 16th century i believe, and ak-47s werent invented til the 20th century. why is it illogical to not have ak-47s in a 15 year span? think of what you're saying before you say it.

[Seink]

My apologies to the Ak thingy...but isn't HVG an assasin guild from Harmonia?If it's from Harmonia, wasn't it controlled by the Harmonia government???why didn't they share the gun powder secret??? It isn't in a sense a CIA in the States?

[Lord Tsubaki]

The Howling Voice Guild has the monopoly on the usage of gun powder.

More info about the HVG here:
http://www.suikosource.com/history/legacies/hvg.php

[Jowy Atreides]

I think that the HVG only does assassinations. There's never been any evidence of a battalion of HVG Gunners in Harmonia's history. Here's a way I can compare what you said to how the HVG works, sort of.

1) Assassins - renowned for almost always working alone, there probably wouldn't be a battalion of assassins simply because they mainly do their missions alone, and these missions usually involve killing a single individual target, not a whole opposing battalion of enemies.

2) CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) - Well, have you ever heard of the CIA making a battalion of troops, guns or not?

[Vextor]

1) Assassins - renowned for almost always working alone, there probably wouldn't be a batallion of assassins simply because they mainly do their missions alone, and these missions usually involve killing a single individual target, not a whole opposing batallion of enemies.

Actually, Israel is known to assassinate leaders of militant Muslim groups with assult helicopters (often in broad daylight)

2) CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) - Well, have you ever heard of the CIA making a batallion of troops, guns or not?

Yes, the CIA does indeed have a paramilitary unit, which was very much activly involved in field battles in Afghanistan.


As for the Howling Voice Guild, they are an independent political/military force within Harmonia. The elders of the guild are very cunning, and have used the tension between the Harmonian priests and aristocrats to make sure the Guild stays independent. By keeping the Aristocrats and the Temple at odds against each other, the guild has played into their fears so that their service is essential for each of their survival.

In Suikogaiden Vol. 2 Zaj nearly gained control over the Harmonian government through the use of such politics. That is why Sasarai helped Nash defeat Zaj--he saw the power of the Guild as a threat, and wanted to silence them for a while. However, he would never go as far as destroying the Guild because their skill is needed.

Gun power technology is derived from Sindarin alchemy, and is exclusive to the guild. Only few people know how to make gunpower or use guns. Guns themselves are very rare--not enough to supply an army.

[Sesshomaru]

If the HVG got together and made a bunch of guns they could take out any oposing forse. I don't know why Konami would make them turn like the Harmonias and try to take over the world. They would win One of their guns could kill like 100 people and if they have gun powder they can make bombs and destroy anything!

[Ced The Lad]

It's not their ambition to take over the world or harmonia for that matter. Let's not forget that not everyone is as skilled as Kelly, Clive, Zaj, and Elza with a gun. Remember Nash took out two of their agents in Suikogaiden.

Not too many people can go through the training either.

[Vextor]

The HVG probably have very limited abilities to produce guns due to the Suikoden world's lack of mechangical engineering technology.

The Suikoden world has runes, which diminish the necessity to invest time into mechanical engineering. In order to be able to mass-produce guns, you need to have mechanical devices that can bore out muzzles with precision to make sure trajectories are consistent, and sophisticalted die-making capabilities to make sure the same weapon can be reproduced.

The HVG makes each gun with time, and each gunner must become accustomed to the kinks of each gun to be truly able to master it's use. This is why the guild says that a gunner is "chosen" by his or her gun. Some people may never quite understand the kinks of their gun.

This is why, despite the fact that firearms have existed since the 10th centurly (starting in China), they didn't completely replace cold weapons (swords, spears, etc) until the early 20th century (Cavalry with no firearms were used even up to WW II!). They were too unreliable as a weapon and difficult to manufacture in a massive scale due to it's mechanical complexity.

[Pyro]

i saw richmond from suikoden2 say in a report clive had a true rune in his gun storm,with only 27 true runes to go around it would be hard to mass produce good guns like storm

[Jowy Atreides]

Sturm is a one-of-a-kind gun with "Sentience". It has the ability to not fire for/at certain people. Richmond, being a man who is not intimately familiar with magic, didn't understand the difference between Sentience in non-humans, and automatically assumed it was a True Rune.

[Pyro]

that explains it for me,cause i wondered why it wasn't included in the true rune list

[Vextor]

Because it's just Richmond's assumption, which was in fact wrong.

Storm doesn't have a True Rune.