Is fate unchangeble if the true runes are involved?

Felenan Prince · Post by **Felenan Prince** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:45 am

Ok i got into a long argument with someone in suikox. He said as long as the true runes are involved fate becomes unchangable. Man is no longer capable of changing destiny. Is this true?

Ushiku · Post by **Ushiku** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:55 am

There is no right or wrong answer in relation to this question as it depends on the opinion of the person who answers the question and on the circumstances involved.

For example some would say that Lazlo changed his fate by moving the Rune of Punishment into its forgiveness stage, whilst others would say that already was his fate.

Also Luc had a vision from the True Wind Rune of his fate as Hikusaak's puppet, however by killing himself he changed his fate.

So again "Tell me, is fate unchangeable?"

Futagi · Post by **Futagi** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:32 am

Leknaat once explained that everyone has a fate, but they must have the will to meet it. Hence why you may or may not recruit all the Stars of Destiny and why there are various endings for all the games. It shows you different possible futures and fates.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:05 pm

My question to this is what makes everyone think that True Runes have anything to do with fate or destiny? Man trekks his own path into the future and each individual has their own predetermined destiny. The True Runes, may or may not have anything to do with what a man's fate or destiny is. That's for the individual man to find out and through their own actions to change it if that is that individual's desire to do so. It is more than likely that True Runes are beyond the concept of such terms as fate and destiny. Why would they care about the fate or destiny of mortals? It would seem rather inconsequential.

Ushiku · Post by **Ushiku** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:40 am

True Rune's do have their own desires, and humans are the easiest target, since other races either do not know enough about Runic Magic or are aware of the negativity of Runic Magic, and so avoid it. Thus making the humans who know of Runic Magic but wish to use it for their own purposes the ideal puppets in their plans.

fu hung shu · Post by **fu hung shu** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:38 am

I think in the suikoverse the three are intertwined , Living beings(Humans, Kobolds, Elves, Dwarves ect), True runes and Fate,

Living beings each have their own objectives, some seek knowledge, some seek power, some seek solitude and some seek companionship, which usually leads to conflict.

True runes have their own purposes (i got no idea what those are) and conflicts and usually chose the living being as vessel which sometimes results in the above (power struggle, solitude or knowledge)

which results in the last Fate (or destiny) be it in the case of the true runes or the living beings

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:00 pm

I'm curious as to what desires each person believes the True Runes to have. They have shown very little desires. They have all acted within their individual nature. They are obviously sentient or at least self-aware, but they have shown no drive to do anything but be. Mortals seem to try to achieve their own individual desires through usage of these True Runes. I see no example of a True Rune pursuing anything if I recall correctly.

One will argue that they choose their bearers, but do they really? There ar eindeed prerequisites for True Rune usage. But, do they not always seem to end up with a bearer who can best bring out their nature. That's not really choosing, it's meeting the right "fit". Let me clarify by a very simple example.

Not every person can wear the same size pants, correct? Only the person that meets the criteria can fit that pair of pants. The pants don't desire that person to meet the criterion, it's just the rules and the way things are. The pants are made a certain way and only that particular person can fit it. It can be argued that True Runes are the same way.

If they existed before the world began, then what desires would they need? They are existence within itself. There should be nothing they want and I have seen no example of them wanting or desiring anything. I think we may have been misguided by the Creation Myths and various other myths being told about the True Runes.

Fate and destiny have no bearance on the immortal. That seems to be a total contradiction. Why would you need a destiny if you will exist forever? You would have no fate but to exist for all eternity. Unless, of course, they can be destroyed. But, not in the conventional sense. I'm talking about when every thing else cease to exist, then there is nothing to acknowledge their existence.

It's a paradox. Does one exist or know of their existence within someone else to proclaim it? A god cannot truly be a god without followers that worship. Do the True Runes really care about that? Seeing Luc's dream, it seems unlikely. He claims they pass on from world to world causing leaving nothing if I recall correctly. But, it seems like the mortals are the ultimate cause of this due to their greed and ambitions. Hmm, who really knows, though.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:33 am

The only 'desires' that I've seen a True Rune have is the preservation of balance and/or meaningless destruction wich could be connected(like seen in S3, the destruction of the TWR would keep the world from becoming a stagnant, grey..world).

Perhaps the True Runes have a hidden agenda.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Wed May 17, 2006 2:59 pm

You must remember that the vision was what mortal minds could perceive. It could very well be a projection of their own fears. I still believe that the True Wind Rune showed Luc what he wanted to see. Balance is already inherent to True Runes' nature. They already embody harmony due to their inherent duality. I just fail to see what agenda they would need or why they would desire to obliterate mortal life which they supposedly brought into existence in the first place. Seems rather contradictory.

Felenan Prince · Post by **Felenan Prince** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:21 am

One more question id like to ask. Can one person change fate when the true runes are involved? What I mean to say is can a person,without the aid of the 108 stars change fate if the true runes are involved?

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:40 am

Felenan Prince wrote:One more question id like to ask. Can one person change fate when the true runes are involved? What I mean to say is can a person,without the aid of the 108 stars change fate if the true runes are involved?

I really cannot understand these questions. What does it matter? Who said that there is something such as fate in the suikoverse? Leknaat mentions the word 'fate' alot but that might just mean 'the outcome' of the conflict and dousn't need to mean 'a pre ordained fate'.

And True Runes don't actually 'change' fate. They just influence certain events (Take the souls of certain people, draws people to eachother, show visions to the bearer and so on) to bend the outcome to their will.

WEll, thats how I see it. Fate has no relevence in the game exept for conversation purposes on Leknaats part.

reyjusuf · Post by **reyjusuf** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:29 pm

it's hard to know if someone has changed his fate.

someone who was born poor but worked very hard and became a rich man may say "i changed my fate by working hard" but maybe becoming rich was his fate all along. maybe his willingness of working hard was his fate.

Felenan Prince · Post by **Felenan Prince** » Fri May 19, 2006 12:32 am

Let me give you the gist of are argument. Basically we were arguing that everything that happened was the will of the true rune. According to him when Riou did not fight jowy according to him it was the "will the true rune". And conversely if Riou had faught with Jowy it would still be the will of the true runes according to him.

The same argument applied to the FC. Wether he had chosen to seal the rune or choosen to seal the rune both scenario would be the "will of the TFR"