Sialeed's "Decision" *SPOILER*

[Griffin]

the fact that sialeeds kept dying her hair blonde and stopped dying it once she got the twilight rune is a sign that it somehow changed her

Exactly, Iku! Exactly!

son michael its not very polite to say someone is wrong when we're all just speculating, if you were a member of the creation team for s5 then youd be able to say that but your not, well not to my knowledge, so be either more open minded or just say you disagree rather then just saying someone is wrong!! Surprised

Alas there are always people who just can't be polite, especially in forums.

I try not responding to these manners anymore!

Thanks Iku ! *sends Sialeeds magic spell*

[son_michael]

Like later on when she has the twilight rune, she is very much different. She is ruthlessly speaking, possessed somewhat, still somewhere there is Sialeeds of course just everything to the extreme. The "normal" Sialeeds would have never done the things she did at the very end. I mean she was about to kill her beloved friends.

this is not an example because I can counter this with "she was just acting"

and I already explained to you that she wasn't trying to kill her friends at the end......apparently you guys dont read my post's

And extreme sarcasm! Her sensitivity was gone! (she regained that at the end, when she lost the twilight rune)

you seem to forget when she saves the prince in stormfist, when the prince gets trapped in the gladiator dome the twilight rune saves him and then when they confront Sialeeds she wants to know how lym is above all else

probabbly cuase Lyon had it for a very short time. plus she might be less influenceable than Siasleeds

and Sialeeds had it long?

Runes have a different influence on everyone. Although the twilight rune is literally Sialeeds rune (it's not the fire rune, nor the thankyouverymuch rune, no it's the TWILIGHT rune, chosen by the creators with an ulterior motive --> Sialeeds), she was never meant to own it.

its stated in the game that both the dawn rune and twilight rune choose there bearers, its also stated that there ONLY PURPOSE is to protect the sun rune, neither rune has a mastermind ulterior motive behind it...there's no evil or benevolent race controling it......they are just 2 sentient runes that want to protect the sun rune thats there purpose

First because she was somewhat unstable these days (no offence Sialeeds *g*), and because it's probably meant to be owned by Lyon or the Prince.

Sialeeds seems the same way throughout the whole game....Lyon was right next to Sialeeds dying body...the Twilight rune chose her but there really was no other choice, Sialeeds was the true person chosen by that rune

And they are speaking about compatibility of the twilight rune. Alenia didn't have that at all. She couldn't even get to the powers of the twilight rune. Sialeeds could, but there was a price she had to pay for this...!

she paid no price...she merley used the power of the twilight rune to get rid of both the barrows and the Godwins

And of course Sialeeds plans were ridding Falena from the bad guys. And she achieved that. But Sialeeds didn't expect the twilight rune to change her so much that she could barely stop herself from destroying her friends, the good side, aswell.

again....she wasn't going to kill her friends...the game CLEARLY states that she was trying to get them away from the Sun rune

the fact that sialeeds kept dying her hair blonde and stopped dying it once she got the twilight rune is a sign that it somehow changed her, perhaps before she thought that being on the outside of the royal family suited her fine but when she got the rune it made her think that her role was more important then that, and as we saw, she look like one of he royal family, this is just speculation but i do think her change of hair colour is significant!
son michael its not very polite to say someone is wrong when we're all just speculating, if you were a member of the creation team for s5 then youd be able to say that but your not, well not to my knowledge, so be either more open minded or just say you disagree rather then just saying someone is wrong!!

She changed her hair color for reasons unrelated to the twlight rune. Probably because only the queen was allowed to have that hair color or maybe it was a way for the player to associate her with evil so that we feel alot more toward her character

You guys are the ones being mean/rude to me, I havent insulted anybody... I merley countered your arguments and stated that your wrong and I never did it with big question marks and insults like you guys do




if you wanna end this then say you guys have a theory that Sialeeds was affected by the twilight rune and THEN go post this in unjustified theories cause you have no proof whatsoever and you guys are just attacking me because you cant counter me


you know I think thats a good idea...go post a topic in the theories section and watch how quickly its moved to unjustified theories.

[Krelian]

She changed her hair color for reasons unrelated to the twlight rune. Probably because only the queen was allowed to have that hair color or maybe it was a way for the player to associate her with evil so that we feel alot more toward her character

How do you know that? It could as well be for the reasons Griffin stated.

You guys are the ones being mean/rude to me, I havent insulted anybody... I merley countered your arguments and stated that your wrong and I never did it with big question marks and insults like you guys do

I've read the last few posts and I have to disagree. I can't find any insults at all. And what big question marks are you talking about? In other words: you're wrong.

if you wanna end this then say you guys have a theory that Sialeeds was affected by the twilight rune and THEN go post this in unjustified theories cause you have no proof whatsoever and you guys are just attacking me because you cant counter me

Sorry, but I only see you countering with comments like "you're wrong". What makes you think you're right while the rest is wrong?

you know I think thats a good idea...go post a topic in the theories section and watch how quickly its moved to unjustified theories.

Now who's the one being mean?

Personally I think Griffin's theory is pretty reasonable. It makes sense to me anyway.

[Iku]

haswar had silver hair so it cant be for that reason that sialeeds dyed her hair. also sure im its implied in the game manual more so then in the game that she dyes her hair so she can live a little incognito, i mean silver hair is a big give away to qho she is!
oh and this isnt unjustified as reasonable reasons are being given to back up the claims that are being made!

[darkphoenix]

I've always thought Sialeeds dyed her hair for personal taste. That's my point of view for the story.

As to interprate it, I'd say silver her is a symbol of the royal family, hence power. We can see her hair color moving from a common light brown of a nobody, politically speaking, to a bright royal silver at a stage of the game where Sialeeds takes decesions of massive influence on the plot.

if you look back to the game, Sialeeds's power and influence are extremely limited: she has no major achievements until she swaps sides.

Now I'm not saying sialeeds has lust for power as main motive, it's more like a consequence of what she tried to do

[Rezard]

Altrough it is possible that Sialeeds was influeced by the twilight rune, (after all, the black sword already influenced Jowy in SII and that´s not a true rune) I think Sialeeds was influenced by the sun rune itself.

Is there any proof that a true rune only influence its owner? The sun rune is suppose to make people believe they are the absolute right and all their actions are justified. That's exactly how the godwin and Sialeeds act, they take action that endanger every thing they hold dear and don't seem to think twice, they believe they are the absolute true. So they were all under the sun´s influence.

In Suikoden II, the people also seem to be affected by the Rune of Beginning, Highland and Dunan keep fighting, unable to ever hold lasting peace, until one of them beat the other and became one, just like the curse from the beginning. Also Lucca and Darell seem influenced by the beast rune.

[Madame Zhang]

Altrough it is possible that Sialeeds was influeced by the twilight rune, (after all, the black sword already influenced Jowy in SII and that´s not a true rune) I think Sialeeds was influenced by the sun rune itself.

Is there any proof that a true rune only influence its owner? The sun rune is suppose to make people believe they are the absolute right and all their actions are justified. That's exactly how the godwin and Sialeeds act, they take action that endanger every thing they hold dear and don't seem to think twice, they believe they are the absolute true. So they were all under the sun´s influence.

In Suikoden II, the people also seem to be affected by the Rune of Beginning, Highland and Dunan keep fighting, unable to ever hold lasting peace, until one of them beat the other and became one, just like the curse from the beginning. Also Lucca and Darell seem influenced by the beast rune.

It's always seemed obvious to me that Sialeeds simply wanted to get revenge on the nobles for what they've done to generations of the royal family. When she was offered the rune, she saw a way to do so effortlessly, since the Godwins wouldn't stop her, and the Prince wouldn't be able to stop her. If she had stayed on the Prince's side she wouldn't have been able to kill Barrows herself in such a manner, and he would've found some way to slip out of his punishment. To be honest, her hair color change seemed like her finally acknowledging her heritage, and not some possession of the rune. If she (or the Twilight rune) had wanted to lethally harm the Prince, she could've done so at anytime. That first boss fight was simply a chance for her to get used to its power, and the second an excuse for her to die. Besides, the Dawn and Twilight runes are twins in a way, so why would the Twilight rune possess Sialeeds to hurt the chosen wielder of its twin the Dawn rune?

lol, I hope this doesn't come off as a series of ramblings. I only just finished the game yesterday.

[WuYung]

Okay i think this is the best tip-off to this discussion question

The maid in sialeeds room says the following:
"Executing Lord Godwin or Lord Barows after the war's over would create a lot of ill-feeling. People would think of you and the Princess as merciless, cold-blooded tyrants. But if you don't do anything, it'll leave a source of trouble in Falena that could surface again in the future. Lady Sialeeds must have been trying to use war to eliminate all those problems once and for all. Prince Azul, please try not to resent Lady Sialeeds."

I think that about sums it up. However, i still dissagree with her actions.

Also another maid adds:
"it seems gizel saw through lady sialeeds. He figured out what she was trying to do. I thought he might be using her for his own selfish purposes, but i suppose he wasn't.." Also i thought that was quite an interesting remark, it was almost as if, Gizel was siding with Sialeeds and felt his own father was corrupt... although i might just be reading too into this

[sunstar25]

Sialeeds had a bitter distaste for the nobility since the Succession Conflict. It was Salum Barows who persuaded Falzhram to usurp the throne from her older sister, Sharewar (if I spelled it correctly). Which was a bitter conflict which presumably turned Marscal Godwin into a madman since Nether Gate assassinated his wife, Rosalind and his cousin, Mardas (Sharewar's husband).

The Godwins and the Barows' have been fighting for absolute power and would do whatever steps necessary to gain that power. It was Barows that stole the Dawn Rune and blamed it it on Lord Rovere and the people of Lordlake because they were faithful to the Queen.

Sialeeds saw firsthand how despicable the nobility have become because of their shameless acts and that it caused much suffering to the queendom. She knew they cannot be allowed to cause anymore trouble in the future. Which is why she killed Salum herself and made sure Freyjadour annihalated Godwin.

It is kind of sad that the present royal family are the descendants of an usurper.

[chypa]

so the only reason why sialeeds betrayed us, is because she want to kill salum barows?
that's all!
how silly of her!
or maybe she wanted to have the nation for herself?
didn't she trust the prince?

[Oppenheimer]

She trusted the prince to do the moral thing and killing Salum in cold blood isn't moral.

[Raptorg]

First because she was somewhat unstable these days (no offence Sialeeds *g*), and because it's probably meant to be owned by Lyon or the Prince.

Sialeeds seems the same way throughout the whole game....Lyon was right next to Sialeeds dying body...the Twilight rune chose her but there really was no other choice, Sialeeds was the true person chosen by that rune

the Prince is the true chosen, Sialeeds and Lyon were nothing more then hosts for the Twilight Rune to get together with the Dawn Rune, or perhaps Sialeeds and Lyon were wrongly chosen by the rune,

Zerase told the prince he had to prove himself to the rune, which he did, apperantly
however, Sialeeds and Lyon both were chosen, but didn't seem to match the rune.. and thus both lost the rune, and Prince had the Twilight rune

i'm fairly sure it's a means of coming together with the Dawn rune, the first time we see the Twilight rune was on Alenia, who fought a direct battle with the prince.. this could have been the Twilight rune's first chance to "hop over" to the first, it might have silently hoped the Prince would have defeated her and then it could have taken its chance, this however didn't happen, because the moment the Twilight rune wanted to hop over, Zerase stopped it(probably thinking the Twilight rune wanted to create an explosion) and Dolph saved her

then the Twilight rune abandoned Alenia
the next we had Sialeeds i believe, she also had a direct confrontation with the prince, she even blew him up in Stormfist

she fled and went to Sol-Falena after seeing eachother and fighting in Gizel's room

then in Sol-Falena, she wanted to blow up the dam, Prince stopped her and they fought again, this time defeating her

the rune hopped over to Lyon

a series of event happens, they defeat the Sun Rune Incarnation they make contact(they hold hands), bang, Lyon feels weak and dies(happened in my ending, i know there's also an ending she lives, but this is what i had) the rune hops over to the prince, and is reunited with the daw rune

wether the rune hops over in the "good ending" where Lyon lives, i don't know, i guess she was eventually chosen and the Twilight rune could be with the Dawn rune if Lyon and Prince would be together

but long story short
i believe that the Prince was the one who should wear both runes
makes me wonder.. if we could play with him with the 2 runes, would be be able to cast Creation on his own?
(Creation is the spell that happens if you combine both rune magics(with Prince and Lyon)

on the Sialeeds part.. i think she wanted to destroy the Godwins from the inside OR she was still in love with Gizel and wanted to help him..
however, i think the first one is the right one

and ofc, she wanted to kill Barows as well, she did actually say she wanted to murder him.. perhaps not with that many words, but she did seem to want it

however, that doesn't really explain why she blew up prince..

[chypa]

Sialeeds seems the same way throughout the whole game....Lyon was right next to Sialeeds dying body...the Twilight rune chose her but there really was no other choice, Sialeeds was the true person chosen by that rune

the Prince is the true chosen, Sialeeds and Lyon were nothing more then hosts for the Twilight Rune to get together with the Dawn Rune, or perhaps Sialeeds and Lyon were wrongly chosen by the rune,

Zerase told the prince he had to prove himself to the rune, which he did, apperantly
however, Sialeeds and Lyon both were chosen, but didn't seem to match the rune.. and thus both lost the rune, and Prince had the Twilight rune

i'm fairly sure it's a means of coming together with the Dawn rune, the first time we see the Twilight rune was on Alenia, who fought a direct battle with the prince.. this could have been the Twilight rune's first chance to "hop over" to the first, it might have silently hoped the Prince would have defeated her and then it could have taken its chance, this however didn't happen, because the moment the Twilight rune wanted to hop over, Zerase stopped it(probably thinking the Twilight rune wanted to create an explosion) and Dolph saved her
then the Twilight rune abandoned Alenia
the next we had Sialeeds i believe, she also had a direct confrontation with the prince, she even blew him up in Stormfist

she fled and went to Sol-Falena after seeing eachother and fighting in Gizel's room

then in Sol-Falena, she wanted to blow up the dam, Prince stopped her and they fought again, this time defeating her

the rune hopped over to Lyon

a series of event happens, they defeat the Sun Rune Incarnation they make contact(they hold hands), bang, Lyon feels weak and dies(happened in my ending, i know there's also an ending she lives, but this is what i had) the rune hops over to the prince, and is reunited with the daw rune

wether the rune hops over in the "good ending" where Lyon lives, i don't know, i guess she was eventually chosen and the Twilight rune could be with the Dawn rune if Lyon and Prince would be together

but long story short
i believe that the Prince was the one who should wear both runes
makes me wonder.. if we could play with him with the 2 runes, would be be able to cast Creation on his own?
(Creation is the spell that happens if you combine both rune magics(with Prince and Lyon)

on the Sialeeds part.. i think she wanted to destroy the Godwins from the inside OR she was still in love with Gizel and wanted to help him..
however, i think the first one is the right one

and ofc, she wanted to kill Barows as well, she did actually say she wanted to murder him.. perhaps not with that many words, but she did seem to want it

however, that doesn't really explain why she blew up prince..

correct me if i'm wrong.
but isn't that jeane doing?

[KFCrispy]

Yes, Jeane was necessary in attaching the Twilight Rune to Sialeeds. But even so, multiple people can be "truly chosen" by a True Rune. ie the Rune of Condemnation seems to just to hop around to whoever is closest to the dying former bearer.

[Rune]

Okay i think this is the best tip-off to this discussion question

The maid in sialeeds room says the following:
"Executing Lord Godwin or Lord Barows after the war's over would create a lot of ill-feeling. People would think of you and the Princess as merciless, cold-blooded tyrants. But if you don't do anything, it'll leave a source of trouble in Falena that could surface again in the future. Lady Sialeeds must have been trying to use war to eliminate all those problems once and for all. Prince Azul, please try not to resent Lady Sialeeds."

I think that about sums it up. However, i still dissagree with her actions.

Yeah, that's a very significant point. Putting everything together, we can conclude that Sialeeds left the Prince to fight for a similar goal but from the Godwins' side. She wanted to protect the Prince/Lymsleia from any negative consequences, as well as the fact that she didn't think they would have the hearts to kill the Godwins and Barows after the war. Like Lucretia said, it wasn't the best course of action and was probably overly aggressive, but it did work out. Gizel's dying words are correct; Sialeeds succeeded in what she intended to do. Unfortunately, it had many costs (prolonging the war and sacrificing her own life, which particularly saddened me--she was one of my favorite characters!)

Also another maid adds:
"it seems gizel saw through lady sialeeds. He figured out what she was trying to do. I thought he might be using her for his own selfish purposes, but i suppose he wasn't.." Also i thought that was quite an interesting remark, it was almost as if, Gizel was siding with Sialeeds and felt his own father was corrupt... although i might just be reading too into this

That comment, as well as the fact that Gizel gave Sialeeds the Twilight Rune and was concerned about her death, led me to believe that Gizel in fact did not share his father's ambitions. I don't think he was against what his father was doing like you suggested, but I do believe that he wasn't out for the power like his father was. As I see it, his father's actions gave him many opportunities to plot and scheme. He was fighting with his father, but he put his own feelings for Sialeeds (he obviously still lusted after her) first.

Sialeeds's betrayal and the Godwins themselves (particularly Gizel) are vastly underrated and simplified by a lot of fans IMO. I think Sialeeds' "betrayal" (if you can even call it that) was much better done than Jowy's, and fits into her character a lot better. And while the Godwins aren't the best antagonists in the series, they're definitely a lot more than just plain evil. Oh well, I couldn't care less what others think of them. Suikoden V's story is still my absolute favorite story period, and I love the characters passionately. Not even my favorite books top Suikoden V!