Sialeed's "Decision" *SPOILER*

[Chrono2001]

True you fight her twice but right before you fight her the 1.st time, she saves you from Childerich's ambush if She truely wish for the Prince to die why save him. She only fight you then to keep you from finding out her plan to clean up the senate plus to make it look like she had truely betrayed the Prince.

The 2nd time you fight her She was trying to blow the dam away while the Prince's army was still far away from it to minimize casualties and she knew that the Godwins plan to use the Sun rune on the dam once Prince's army got to it and that would have wipe the army out completely. So that is in fact a other time she trys to save the Prince. then after the fight When The Godwins do use the Sun rune She trys to get the Prince to run away, Now I ask you if she wanted the prince dead why tell him to run?

BTW sorry for the run on sentences I all ways got a f in English class.

[Kirin]

I agree; There were several times when she decided she had to *stop* the prince to continue with her grand plan, but I think she would have been considerably upset if he had actually died in the ensuing battles. Similar to how she was visibly upset when Dolph gave Lyon a potentially mortal wound during their escape with Lym.

She's willing to do *almost* anything to make her plan for destroying the nobles succeed, but I think she'd like to do it without seriously hurting her (former?) friends and family if at all possible. She has some weird ideas about the best way to do things, but she's no monster by a long shot.

[LoganAlpha30X13]

I'm left to wonder why the battle in Sol-Falena had to happen at all, after all by that time it's only Gizel, his dad, Zahak, and Alenia left with Dolph there to I guess, it would have been the perfect time for her to welcome the Prince home and say that it's time to end the war and then she'd lead him and the others to fight Gizel, making that fight much more meaningful, or just think if she was the one that had fought him in the duel instead of the prince, I just don't see the need for that fight, Sialeeds would still work imho as a character to use in a later game looking for absolution or something like it. Like my earlier idea. I'll go now.............................

[StarBeamAlpha]

Sialeeds had to die.

Her relationship with everybody would have never been the same, and her trust would always be questioned, and one more thing that I will explain.

I think her relationship with Lucretia is one of the more important things to take in consideration.

She hated Lucretia so much, but in the end became Lucretia herself.

In Sialeed's eyes Lucretia betrayed not only Godwin but betrayed the Queen as well, telling her to equip the sun rune to her head, knowing that it would be hard on her and and make her crazy. In Sialeed's eyes Lucretia killed Arshtat since the sun rune's influence killed Arshtat.

But it was what had to be done right? The only way to win was through "betrayal" and to do what was right for Falena.

Notice any similarities?

Sialeed's knew that Lucretia made the right choice all along, and ended up making the same exact choice herself when she betrayed the prince to do what was best for Falena- to destroy the senate at all cost.

What was the last thing she said when she died? Wouldn't that be the important clue?

"I Hate you Lucretia!"

She was really saying she hated herself, because she had become the person she hated most.

She could not live because she became Lucretia.

[LoganAlpha30X13]

Well they could of just had her leave Falena after the final fight, knowing that the PRince had won, restored order, and that the nobles were all gone. It's true that she hated Lucretia, though it seemed that she'd told several people in the castle of her plans, I'm betting that Lucretia(because afterwards she contemplates apologizing to the prince), Kyle-and how he doesn't seem to surprised by her actions and almost admit that he knew what she was going to do, and probably Georg. To me it was just a waste of a good character. I'll go now..........................

[Red XIV]

I don't reall y like Sialeeds's betryal. It is not the betrayl that displeases me, but how she reaches that conclusion.

I see she committed the act completly based on her personnal emotion and relatively faulty believes.

Which is, as I recall, pretty much exactly what Lucretia tells Sialeeds.

maybe I missed it, but why didn't Sialeeds kill Marscal like she killed Salum?

Aside from lack of such an easy opportunity...Marscal's son isn't a complete incompetent like Salum's. Of course, incompetent doesn't necessarily mean harmless. After all, Salum's attempt at a power grab was a total failure (and pretty much doomed to fail from the start), but that didn't prevent it from causing severe problems for the nation.

[Oppenheimer]

maybe I missed it, but why didn't Sialeeds kill Marscal like she killed Salum?

Aside from lack of such an easy opportunity...Marscal's son isn't a complete incompetent like Salum's.

In fact I would say that Marscal kept his son in control sometimes. Reminding him to keep his eye on the prize and not to act rashly. I think that if Marscal had been killed things would have been even more chaotic. Sort of like in FFVI when the emperor dies Kefka gets suddenly much more dangerous without that controlling influence.

[Chimaera]

I finished the game last week, and Sialeeds betrayal really upset me. Firstly I thought it was going to be a "still in love with Gizel nonsense thing too" (fortunately it was not) I did learn a lot of the side aims from the various sources and I can understand some of it. I think she felt like she was going to get rid of the garbage once and for all, and to do that the Houses of Barrows and Godwin had to go once and for all. The only thing I haven't seen from the various posts I have read is not too many people have mentioned the possibility of the Sun Rune and by extension the Dawn adn TWilight Runes influencing the over all outcome. I mean Marscal mentions that the Sun Rune was like the Ring of Sauron, it wanted to be used and it seduced or at least partly seduced him to it's power, since the Dawn and Twilight Runes were also connected to it, isn't it possible they also had some motivation? In my opinion their motivation would be to be reuinited and in harmony with the Sun Rune once more (as came to pass). Also, if we are guided by the finale, after the Sun Rune's defeat it shows us all our "villains" were not so villanous after all, and all semed pleased with the outcome and the Prince's grit and tenacity. The only apparent A"true villain" was Salum Barrows (who did not appear in that scene at all!) So, while I was really angry and later sad that Sialeeds also had to die, I think ultimately she knew she would and from that final glimpse finally had all her dreams fulfilled. She got to finally be with the one she loved, was reunited with her sister and brother in law and got to see her country free of any internal threats for the first time in her life. At least that's what I would like to think, I liked her and hated losing her like that

[Matt620]

It is true that Sialeeds doesn't follow perfect logic. She can't, because she's not perfect. She notices how much hell Salum Barows and the Godwin family have put Falena through, and she needs to get rid of them.

Most people that play the game just assume that discrediting both families is enough, but this is not the case. Salum was able to get back on his feet despite being discredited for provoking Fahlzram into suceeding the civil war. They needed to go: Go permanently.

But there is one problem with just out-and-out killing them. They have sympathizers, at least, Barows does. Remember that Barows's motives weren't wrong (preventing Godwin from taking power), but he did this by extortion, manipulation, and murder. Everyone who plays this game assumes everyone is on the Prince's side, and that everyone hates Barows, but this is not true either. Killing Barows would anger these people, and another silent war will result.

A perfect parallel of this is Arshtat and Lordlake. Lordlake committed theft and high treason, but people were amazingly pissed when Arshtat torched them. What, somehow people think everyone will be okay with the Prince dueling out capital punishment? Certainly not.

So, Sialeeds wants to get rid of Barows (the lesser of two evils, in the people's eyes) to prevent a scheme of his for gaining power. But she can't make the Prince do it. So, who can be made to do it? Godwin? Yeah, Godwin and Barows don't get along, but with Salum underfoot after occupying Rainwall, there is no need to expend the effort.

So, Sialeeds "defects" to Godwin and kills them then. If anyone asks, it would look like Godwin wanted to assassinate Salum, and Sialeeds volunteered or was coerced to do it. No recourse on the Prince. In fact, Barows's supporters would line up to join the Prince to punish the Godwins for ordering this.

With Godwin and Barows gone, all the power is in the hands of the royals. The way Sialeeds wants it, to prevent these side schemes.

Now, her methods are not perfect (she is, after all, a politician. She is not a strategist and can't think of the perfect method). She's also probably got a huge personal interest in this, which cannot be disguised. She merely did the action she thought was best because she couldn't think of a better way.


I understood these as soon as I took back the Sun Palace and heard Gizel talk. I just thought critically. If anyone really has trouble with these things, I blame laziness and a lack of critical thinking on the part of the gamer.

[Chrono2001]

Matt620 you’re absolutely right. Just take events that have happen in real life no matter what So and so leader or famous person has done and how much they have been discredit somebody will still follow them. One thing I don‘t understand is that game makes it plain that she didn‘t really betray the Prince She even says herself that she didn‘t change sides. Yet people want to believe she had alterative motive such as being Queen even though earlier in the game you could tell she had no patience for politics. But sort of of went off topic there but the fact remains that because of her the Prince won the war as perfect as he did. Also if it wasn’t for her Lym would not been able to disbanded senate and Falena would once again go back into civil war later down the road.

sorry for lack of proper grammar.

[riou83]

Sialeeds never truelly betrayed the prince. Its as the others had said she joined up with the Godwins simply to clean up up the senate. This is based on the final conversation between Lucretia and her at the dam. As well as what Gizel said at the very end when He told the prince that he wasn't the winner but rather Sialeeds was.He realized time was about up for both the Godwin and Barrows heads as well as himself. Though he did not see Euram as to much of a problem for the royal family because of Euram being seen by everyone as an idiot.

Sialeeds had no desire to kill the prince she just needed to have to some what believe while marschel was still at the palace. Since it seems he may not of been aware of her goals yet. If she had wanted to kill the prince she would of used the level 4 twilight attack.

[Skyduke]

I must concur that Sialeeds' decision did not make any sense whatsoever to me. And for such a 'major' plot event, I think that's a big flaw. I simply don't really understand what she was trying to achieve by betraying you, especially at the precise moment you are about to end the war by rescuing your sister. Either she is extremely selfish, or (IMO - and only in mine) confused, or even stupid. As a royal from Falena, her major concern should be the people of her country, and she only prolonged their suffering by her stupid move; not to mention if she hadn't done what she did, probably the Godwins would not have had enough time to unleash the secrets of the sun rune.
The explanation given in game I find especially unconvincing - her maid apparently says something to the effect that after the war, if the prince ordered both factions to be dissolved, or punished their leaders, he would appear a tyrant? What? First of all, it was obvious the Godwins had lost popular support, especially after making such ridiculous mistakes as ordering Zahnak to burn half a town, or making Childerich a queen knight. Not to mention the prince had already garnered more, and his power base included more than half the country! If the people had truly believed he was wrong, there would have been resistance against his forces - and there was close to none. The Godwins had also discredited themselves by allying with Armes - a foreign power, and a hated one at that.
Thus it was obvious that the Godwins had to be punished. And since they would fight to the death to retain power, the only logical conclusion was that they would die - and the people would say 'good riddance to bad rubbish'. The Barows? Who would care about what happened to them? They had lost most of their political reach, and had become de facto prisoners of Godwin.
Don't get me wrong - I loved Suikoden V (I also loved the III - still don't get what people have against it!) very much, it was an astounding game, but I feel Sialeeds' choice was a gaping hole in the plot.

Edit: I think the comparison with Lordlake's punishment is not valid. The people of Lordlake understand that for what they had done, punishment would be meted out. What they however do not agree with is the magnitude and the duration of it. The initial Sun Rune blast was bad, but what really had them pissed was the fact they had been denied water by the 'fortress of hatred'. Dispersing both the Godwin and Barows factions, despite the fact they still had supporters, would be a perfect move for the prince: He could 'take the blame', while keeping his sister clean of it.
It seems to me that it would be easy to simply expose the plots of both factions, and then dispose of them. Despite the lack of mass media, after making clear both factions plotted treason against the crown, it would be easy to discredit them and destroy them both. Of course some people would be miffed - people with a stake in the families would be. But the majority of the people would be relieved to know that the power of the crown (and a fair one, at that) was restored, and that there would be no foreseenable civil wars in the future.

[KFCrispy]

many people have questioned why Sialeeds didn't just outright kill the Godwins after the Barows.. i think she needed more time. the Godwins had the connection with Nethergate, which had grown without the detection of the Royal Family for some time; how would she stop that? even if she killed the Godwin family, anybody remotely connected to the Godwin faction might be a key to recalling them. any ordinary-looking, "hail Prince" shouting citizen in Stormfist or even other countries might have been working with them in secret - nobody except the Godwins themselves know how far their network extends, how powerful has Nethergate has grown, and where Nethergate is based (BTW i haven't seen the ending, but does Nethergate somehow get put to an end or what..).

quite simply, the swift capture of Rainwall made it obvious the Barows had no further resources available (no high-ranking insiders working at the palace or Stormfist, no means of defense, no huge secret society available to interfere), meaning killing Salum would be the end all for the Barows faction. the Godwins had been raising Nethergate for MANY years already, with utter secrecy. you can't be sure you've ended much fo anything by just killing off the figureheads of the faction.


it's very hard to say what Sialeeds was thinking.. she was designed to be ambiguous. hmm i can't put together anything else right now that makes sense, so i'll stop -_-

[thcrock]

No, Nether's Gate isn't wrapped up in any way at the end. Oboro's ending says he heads to Nagarea to stamp out the last of them, but thats it (no word on if he's successful).

Oh, and Nakula as well.

But no, the 'end' of Nether's Gate is in no way assured by the ending, although its Falenan presence probably was all but squashed.

[Jalk]

Well I finished the game thirty minutes ago and I wonder... At the end of the game, we learn that the Senate is no more, and has been replaced by representative from every city.
I think that this would not have been possible, if the Barows or the Godwin had still been around. Let's try to imagine Sialeeds' point of view here : her very existence has been lead by the Falenian political system. Her weeding canceled, the fact that she can't have children...
Now, the war begins, and she sees her nephew, an "idealistic youth", trying to restore Falena to what it was. To what it was. Sialeeds must have thought that, once the conflict solved, nothing would have changed. The Barows would have replaced the Godwin as hungry power mongers, the could have sought the services of Neither Gate, and so on...
Her "fault" is perhaps not to have trusted Lucretia. More than helping the Prince to win a war, Lucretia builds patiently the foundations of a new political structure, more stable than the previous one. And she did it with the less violence possible (well, there WERE casualties if you ask me).
Sialeeds saw the Twilight Rune as a way to change things, no matter the cost. And that's why she needed Lym to stay at Sol Falena. Had the war ended, the Godwin would have fled and the Barrows would have been still around, hungry for revenge.
And there is another thing. Whatever Sialeeds said, I'm pretty convinced she still had feelings for Gizel...
The way she talks to Lucretia before dying is perhaps and aknowledgment of what the strategist is trying to do. In a fit of anger, Sialeeds realizes that you can change things without systematically resort to destruction.
Well that was my rambling (sorry for my english, by the way), but to my point of view, Sialeeds' decision is far from illogical.