New-found Respect for IV after playing Rhapsodia?

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Darkillumina
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New-found Respect for IV after playing Rhapsodia?

Post by Darkillumina »

I must admit, I was slightly dissapointed with the way Suikoden IV played out when it was first released. I felt slightly let-down as it seemed very weak on plot development as opposed to the previous 3 installments which were all great works of art. My opinion of the game really hadn't changed until I played Rhapsodia.

Up until the release of Rhapsodia I had played Suikoden IV once. This was a first in the Suikoden series for me as I had played each installment multiple times, but with 4 there seemed to be no point in doing so as the development was lacking.......or so I thought until yesterday.

*Spoiler Warning For Rhapsodia

After finishing the prologue of Rhapsodia and witnessing the tragic passing of Edgar and the passing of the RoP to Brandeau I realized that Suikoden IV was not meant to be an all-encompassing tale as the previous entries were. The Focal Point of Suikoden IV was the Rune of Punishment, not the Island Liberation Wars, nor any of the antagonists. It was meant to be the tale of a cursed rune first and foremost.

Looking at Suikoden 4 in this light I can come to the conclusion that the story was not half bad, the problem was we were expecting an even greater epic then Suikoden 1,2 or 3. If we look at IV through the RoP it is a very well constructed tale. True, there may have been some technical issues but really what most angered me was the plot at that time. But upon playing Rhapsodia, the true meaning of Suikoden IV came to light and I find myself thoroughly satisfied with it the 4th installment of this beloved franchise.

Rhapsodia is also a nice little package as it wraps some loose end's up quite nicely and gives some of the characters some more dimensions, but my true appreciation for Rhapsodia is that it gave me the opportunity to throughly enjoy Suikoden IV.


Anyone else have a shift in thought over IV after playing Rhapsodia?
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Post by Kobold »

I still didn't like S4 as a game itself even after playing Rahpsodia, but Rahpsodia certainly made me very happy after tieing up so many of S4's lose ends.

It also brought more interest to me in S4's plot which i had nearly none prior to Rahpsodia.
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Post by Raftrider »

Suikoden Tactics hasn't changed my opinion whatsoever about Suikoden IV. I enjoyed myself when I played them, but some reason, I felt cheated after discovering how short the story seemed when I beat the game. In my opinion, I felt that the games were lacking.
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Post by Oppenheimer »

For me, I found that I'm even less likely to play Suikoden IV after playing Tactics because it'd make the flaws in IV stand out even more in contrast to what they managed to do in Tactics. Going back to the four person party and the endless walking around, from a quick menu based town exploration and parties of 10 or so, would not be fun.
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Post by Agremsep »

No. I've no respects for it. In fact, I even hate the entire story-arch more.
Suikoden IV is already very stale plot-wised. Except from a few main characters, the rest of the 108 characters were introduced like cheap bargains. They do not leave an impression on me and I wouldn't care if they suffer some anal infection and died of excessive bleeding from their genitals.

So, when you already have a catastrophicly stale plot for Suikoden IV, you either choose to expand the plot or make a spinoff from other more successful stories from first 3 games OR you fix what which was ROTTEN, and when I said fix, you FIX it good.

Unfortunately, all Suikodens Tactics was just tying up ONE loose ends, which was the ROP and Steele, Kika + Brandeau + Edgar etc etc stuff. Other than that, it continue on its own storyline about chasing Evil Eyes, and Fishy Monsters which my grandma could smacked up with her broom.

And there is all to it. Nothing was fixed. In fact, the story became even more rotten. Like Suikoden IV, the characters were poorly introduced. Even Yohn was rotten. You DON'T SEE HER at all throughout the game except for storyline scenes (but unfortunately you spend most of the time for the entire game on the battlefield or the Obel Ruins). Because of that, I don't feel any bridge of connection that tie me to Yohn, the character.

When the ending came bout, another rotten crap was thrown into the fray with Walter/Yohn. Poor taste indeed. And unlike the endings after Suikoden 1,2 and 3, I wasn't even keen of knowing what's gonna happen to this fella, or if dis fella gonna kill him...or watsoever.

All I hope now is that I don't see any of them, and I look forward for the new Suikoden 5. All these while, Suikoden titles were deemed inferior to its counterparts, due to lack of graphics quality or overall distinct quality. But Suikoden was able to complement that with its engaging storyline. Now that the storyline is crap and the graphics are crap, it's safe to say I expect a lot from Suikoden 5. (I saw the graphics..nth impressive, so I'm hoping for gameplay and storyline now.)
Rhapsodia is also a nice little package as it wraps some loose end's up quite nicely and gives some of the characters some more dimensions, but my true appreciation for Rhapsodia is that it gave me the opportunity to throughly enjoy Suikoden IV
I experienced this before, and it happened during Suikoden 1,2 and 3. But there was a difference. What I felt was ten-fold compared to what I felt for Tactics and 4.
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Post by Seink »

I think that Suikoden Tactics is part of a marketing strategy.

Evidently, S4 is trying to make a breakthrough (with its brandname) and move into the mainstream of 3D RPG games since 2D has it's limitations on graphic display and it's short of like "old-tech"(during the pt S4 was made).

Surprisingly(or not), S4 did not met expectations so Tactics was realeased as a backup plan.Tactics serves as a mean to re-enforce the story of S4 and expand the plot further.The results of Tactics is forseenable as long as there is enuf fans to buy the game and wants to know what happens to unknowns of S4(which there is A LOT).

It would not be unexpected that they have planned to create tactics before S4 would be realeased so as to make up for the supposingly "loss" that S4 didnt sell well enuf.

So, they fail to cut a share of FF market and decides to retain in the 2D, enhanced shading tech and BAM....comes S5.
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Post by Oppenheimer »

Seink wrote:Evidently, S4 is trying to make a breakthrough (with its brandname) and move into the mainstream of 3D RPG games since 2D has it's limitations on graphic display and it's short of like "old-tech"(during the pt S4 was made).
I'm confused, are you saying Suikoden IV was trying to do something new by being in 3D? Suiko III was in 3D, so IV wasn't doing anything new in that respect.
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Post by Agremsep »

I don't they are trying to make a cut in the FF market. There is nothing to vie for. The FF series and Suikoden series both have their own unique attributes. As for Suikoden Tactics, I seriously don't mind if it was a spinoff for the backdrop of Suikoden 4. In fact, the gameplay is decent but they storyline is just dissappointing, that's all.
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Post by Porom »

When I played Suikoden Tactics, this is the impression I got from the developer.

"Oh no. The Suikoden community at general seems to either dislike or out right despise where I've tried to go with the series and what I've done. Better put together a game continuing on from where it left off to wrap up some of the loose ends people are mad I didn't clarify on in the game! Let's see, what did I forget to wrap up in Suikoden IV.. Rune Cannons, Lazlo, the big tree thing, some of the characters.. sure, that works!"

I also get the feeling the new developer wanted to create her 'own' universe and game. S4 and Tactics don't really seem to fit. Take out or slightly modify 'True Runes' from S4 along with a few other tiny Suikoden references in it and you have a whole new game. Suikoden Tactics felt even less like one, not due to the lack of 108 characters or new combat system, but because it revolved more or less entirely around one aspect of Suikoden IV that wasn't really that important. And had nothing to do with the series. Rune Cannons were added and removed entirely within one installment.

"Oh, yes, and all the Rune Cannons were hunted down and destroyed, that's why no one has mentioned or used them in any of the games after this one."

Besides, even if S Tactics were the most amazing game to ever grace my TV screen, it wouldn't make up for another game. S4 is S4 and Tactics is Tactics.

Sorry if I come across as ranty. I just really, really, really hate how poor the story was in 4 (I play the Suikoden series for its story, if I wanted mindless hack and slash with mini-games strewn about everywhere I'd play a Final Fantasy), and in Tactics Priscilla came off as such a Mary-Sue character that I purposely KO'd her in every battle that wouldn't auto-fail me.
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Post by Agremsep »

Corselia you mean?

The introduction of Corselia's character proves how pathetic the story writers can get. It's very cheap and much suited for a younger audience. In fact, the existence of Corselia's character is like an insult to our intelligence.
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Post by HolyPaladin »

Agremsep wrote:Corselia you mean?

The introduction of Corselia's character proves how pathetic the story writers can get. It's very cheap and much suited for a younger audience. In fact, the existence of Corselia's character is like an insult to our intelligence.
How does Corselia insult a player's intelligence?
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Post by Oppenheimer »

Agremsep wrote:The introduction of Corselia's character proves how pathetic the story writers can get. It's very cheap and much suited for a younger audience.
I thought she was fine. She was younger so she acted a bit less mature than a more experienced woman like Kika. She was very emotional but her entire family is being killed so she has the right to be. Her character seemed realistic to me. Not everyone can be stoic and a powerhouse, her water magic was quite useful.

Edit: However, I should add, as I've said many times before. I do agree that I'm getting tired of RPGs always featuring teenagers. Immaturity is not really that fun to play. If protagonists would just be set older we wouldn't have this problem of them seeming whiney.
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Post by Agremsep »

ChristianSoldier wrote:
Agremsep wrote:Corselia you mean?

The introduction of Corselia's character proves how pathetic the story writers can get. It's very cheap and much suited for a younger audience. In fact, the existence of Corselia's character is like an insult to our intelligence.
How does Corselia insult a player's intelligence?
I dunno. Like how could possibly a young pre-pubescent girl without any significant ability can make important decisions of her life without flinching or second thoughts, and everything she decides is near perfect of a wise man. Or how she sound like a mother while her mother sound like a daughter.

I dunno how she was brought up, but the reaction when her mother chose Iskas was very artificial or perhaps, stale. Besides from that, she can manipulate adults from kidnapping her into working for her and put her in a good situation.

Genius or not genius, the decisions she made was all experienced-based. Not something you can study or your born with it. It would be easily accepted if she is a mid-20s street smart princess. But no. She lived her entire life in the palace and she was brought out by her whore mother recently just to find Iskas. That pretty much explains her experience in the real world. What she does after that has no logic at all.

And worst of all, she's a kid. We all know Japanese fantasy likes to have pre-adolescents as lead characters. It's a culture. It's a routine. It's something we've been seeing all over. However, they do it with a limit or at least with a slice of rationality and logic. Pre-adolescent heroes are usually born with natural god-like abilities but they lack experience which they will accumalate in their adventures. But the introduction of Corselia is poor taste.

I don't know. Maybe Corselia is an evil genius. She got sick of her entire family - the whore mother, muscle brained father and the generic grandfather that has no character model and potrait. Yeah, she's sick of it. So sick, she masterminded the downfall of her entire kingdom and made use of a group of adventurers to aid her. Yeah, maybe she has the hots of Kyril. The whole game, it's like..Kyril!! Oh Kyril!! Oh, no Kyril!! Oh Kyril!!!

On top of that , her voice is annoying. Corselia is a conniving she-devil from hell.
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Post by czartiffac »

Well I for one found new respect for Suikoden 4 with Rhapsodia but still that doesn't change the fact that Suikoden 4 was a horrible game through and through, even Rhapsodia was short but atleast in its small way it clarified a few things in the end and atleast made me finally respect what Konami was trying to do with Suikoden 4 which of course they failed miserably in doing so.

As for Corselia, in Japan there are a lot of girl heroine that has proven time and again to be popular. Like Card Captor Sakura, Magical Girl Nanoha which in my opinion is the reason why they have Corselia act the way she does in Rhapsodia. Good decision, crafty and still be cute and look a magic staff wow! a magical girl!

So it maybe have to do more with marketing strat than a logical one for Rhapsodia. lolz!
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Post by Fu Su Lu »

Altough I found IV a game with several problems (even so I liked it more than III... :shock: )With Rhapsodia Is not only I had found a new respect for IV (I know, I know it is not at all a great game) it is now I believe a lot more than before in suikoden´s new developers. Let´s see V :D
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