Tree seeds? nice try *spoilers*

[Angelis_Taleria]

It's said at the beginning of Rhapsodia that Warlock sold the tree to Kooluk.

Also, a more plausible theory would be, since Lino En Kuldes had anticipated something like the Island Liberation War happening then he simply stockpiled it at the same time he had the ship of Obel built.

[sevastra82]

I think Cray was selling the ammo to the Island Nations in hopes that Kooluk and the Nations would just blow the crap out of eachother, making it a lot easier for him to achieve his own personal goals. Since he had control over the tree, theres no way the islands could of posed a threat in the long run. And with both empires at war hurting one another, it makes his goals even easier.

At least, thats my thought.

[Angelis_Taleria]

Technically Kooluk owned the true. Cray was manipulating Kooluk and used the tree as a means to an end.

[KFCrispy]

okay about these rune cannons. magicians using them more effectively can make sense in both game since this Giant Tree, its branches that make a cannon, and seeds are all of high runic/magical content.

however, the nature of the cannons themselves is REALLY REALLY twisted in Rhapsodia that they are now alive and can fire by themselves... don't seem like they need "ammunition" when they turn ppl into fishmen, plus the one in the Underground Secret Passage adjusted itself to blast the merchants. but of course, no freak accidents occured to your own 108 Stars, and if it DID happen to annonymous crew members (remember, each character had like 10 crewmen in ship battles, lol..), maybe it was such a normal occurence that nobody mentioned it.....? right........

There WERE tons of fishmen in Suikoden IV, so there is either a made up connection or something was being planned already (but poorly hinted at/constructed in Suikoden IV). However, nobody ever mentioned ppl directly hit or whatever by those living cannons would turn into fishmen.

[Angelis_Taleria]

Well, it's the muzzle that turns people into fishmen, and Lazlo explains to Kyril during one of the conversations that one of the first things that you learn before manning a rune cannon is not to stand near the muzzle too long. There are other things revealed during the game that I'd rather not comment on because someone is bound to read even if I were to mark it with a spoiler tag, but I will say this - The muzzles, or Evil Eyes rather, come from the same place that the Giant Tree came from.

Also, being hit by a rune cannon doesn't affect anyone. It's being hit by a blast directly from the muzzle that warps people into the mutated fish men.

[patapi]

Didn't the game state that the muzzles need to be "activated" in a certain way to cause such transformations? Most cannons used in the recent war were dormant, and that until very recently that someone have been actively going out of their way to activate the Evil Eyes to cause such transformations.

[Raww Le Klueze]

I remember the game saying that when the evil eyes are used as muzzles the eyes are closed, it's when they're open that they can transform people.

[Oppenheimer]

I'm all for tying up loose ends and think that Rhapsodia does a good job with it. But does anyone think that they pulled a connection between rune cannons and the giant tree final boss of Suikoden IV out of thin air in this one?

I just finished Suikoden Tactics (finally) and so I'm a little more willing to accept the tree thing now. Mostly because
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Yohn says she was pulled into this world when the tree was summoned. So that kind of reinforces the whole summoned tree idea. Still the idea of a finite number of seeds creating all ammo that's fired at any point in Suiko IV and Rhapsodia seems a bit suspicious to me still. But, I'm not as skeptical as I was when I first heard the idea.

[Silver Dragon Flik]

I'm all for tying up loose ends and think that Rhapsodia does a good job with it. But does anyone think that they pulled a connection between rune cannons and the giant tree final boss of Suikoden IV out of thin air in this one?

I just finished Suikoden Tactics (finally) and so I'm a little more willing to accept the tree thing now. Mostly because
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Yohn says she was pulled into this world when the tree was summoned. So that kind of reinforces the whole summoned tree idea. Still the idea of a finite number of seeds creating all ammo that's fired at any point in Suiko IV and Rhapsodia seems a bit suspicious to me still. But, I'm not as skeptical as I was when I first heard the idea.

Late answer but ammo is always limited, seeds or not. Ammo needs to be produced. I think Warlock did a lot of business of ammo and runecannons before he sold it. Also you don't need to shoot a lot, I think it's max 40 shots you need in total from all battles.

I also found it strange that nobody got turned into fishmen. Like someone else said, I think the Rune Cannons that were used in the war were dormant because they didn't have Evil Eyes on them. In that battle at the Small Border Village those didn't turn people into fishmen.

SPOILERS







Steele obviously knew of it and led Walter into the trap, he probably equiped it with evil eyes. Same with Iskas who turns serveral people into fishmen. I think there is also a way to resist it or else Iskas would have been a fishman earlier. In the final battle he delibary let himself be changed into a fishman and he was almost dead, so he was powerless to resist.

Also about the point someone made that Lazlo says you must not get near the muzzle for too long. That does not make them safe since Martin was not that near the Rune Cannon but still got turned into a fishman.

Still this is all very fishy that there's never a word about it SIV. So I'm quite sure they all though of this after SIV.

[Night]

Steele obviously knew of it and led Walter into the trap, he probably equiped it with evil eyes.

As I understood, all of the rune cannons came with the evil eye (it's a part of the creature). The difference was, the vast majority of rune cannons are muzzled, and so the eye of the cannon is closed (and it just fires a standard rune blast). On Steele's cannon (and Iskas', although I don't know for definite it was a different cannon) the muzzle had been removed, and thus the eye was open and could somehow be controlled.

[patapi]

The standard muzzles and the Evil Eyes are one and the same, except that they are meant to never be opened.

Simeon/Pablo's talks revealed that the open eye on Steele's cannon was most likely the result of an 'accident'; not a product deliberately developed by Warlock.

[xXSqualleoNXx]

So, let's put this together. Basically, seeds of a Giant Tree were used for Rune Cannons. This seeds are not really finite. the Tree should make new ones now and then, considering it's a damn tree, and it is alive. Plants constantly produce new seeds to reproduce themselves.

Warlock, or rather Lord Reinbach, sold Rune Cannons Ammunition to whoever came to buy some. It was stated in SIV that Rune Cannons were a Middleport secret, and only Middleport had them. It was the Middleport Fleet's secret weapon, until they lost the war with Kooluk and were forced to trade them with other nations to make a living.

For some stupid reason, Reinbach sold the Tree to Kooluk. When you meet Warlock, he specifically mentions he can't no longer sell you any Rune Cannons, as he sold all he had and he had no means of producing new ones.

SO, on to the Rune Cannons. Rune Cannons were constructed off Monsters summoned along with the Tree. Specifically, the Eye Fish thing that you fight in Warlock's cave. Normal Rune Cannons have their "Eyes" closed. Basically, the muzzles have to be left untouched, and that's why the common rule was never to mess with the Cannon's Muzzle. Tinker with the Muzzle and eventually you will unlock it's Eye. That's the whole secret to Evil Eyes. Of course, I'm sure it is not that easy to unlock the eyes, as it took quite a while before someone found the trick to Modyfing Rune Cannons into Evil Eyes.

[patapi]

So, let's put this together. Basically, seeds of a Giant Tree were used for Rune Cannons. This seeds are not really finite. the Tree should make new ones now and then, considering it's a damn tree, and it is alive. Plants constantly produce new seeds to reproduce themselves.

Assuming that the plants in the other world work like they are in this world. We know human body undergo severe changes when entering that world, so I wouldn't be surprise the reproduction rule doesn't apply to the Great Tree.

[xXSqualleoNXx]

So, let's put this together. Basically, seeds of a Giant Tree were used for Rune Cannons. This seeds are not really finite. the Tree should make new ones now and then, considering it's a damn tree, and it is alive. Plants constantly produce new seeds to reproduce themselves.

Assuming that the plants in the other world work like they are in this world. We know human body undergo severe changes when entering that world, so I wouldn't be surprise the reproduction rule doesn't apply to the Great Tree.

Considering there was a vast supply of Rune Cannon Ammunition, it's a safe guess that it most produce new seeds. Otherwise, why would have Kooluk bought it? I doubt they wanted it so it would redecorate the Castle by throwing Vines all over the damned place.

[patapi]

But, the plant producing seeds isn't the assumption. That's fact.

The assumption there is saying that those seeds can generate new Giant Trees.