Windy's monster army

koriand'r · Post by **koriand'r** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:16 am

In suikoden 1 before the final war battle, you learn that windy has over 100,000 monsters in her army at her command! Now Toran's army as far as I know is small, highland has about half the number and the city states about 30,000 I think. The fact that windy just summoned these with evidence of little difficulty must make some wonder why she hasn't caused more damage than before. *Granted harmonia could beat her* But I don't think any other suikoden nation could defeat an army that size and was only sent packing by leknaat's rune being enhanced by Josua's.

Zotmaster · Post by **Zotmaster** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:47 am

I don't think that's necessarily a plot hole.

Actually, I think there's a logical explanation for that.

Keep in mind that the Emperor's great generals - Kwanda, Millich and company - were all against Windy. This is part of the reason why they join your party: they realize Windy is to blame. It seems logical to me that the reason why Windy didn't make a drastic move like that in the first place is because all of the generals would, in my opinion, have stood against her. Having all the generals start a civil war probably wouldn't be conducive to Windy staying in power or even having support, for that matter. I think Windy knew that acting earlier would have done more harm than good, and so she chose not to.

The less-fun-but-still-plausible theory is that she simply underestimated the power of the resistance against her. Time and time again in the role-playing world, villains underestimate how strong the heroes are, so it could have just been a simple miscalculation on her part. I'd like to give Windy some credit, though, and so I choose to believe that it was a calculated decision not to summon the monsters prior to when she did.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:36 am

It's also possible that the reason why Windy didn't summon them in the first place is because she knew that Leknaat could send them back anyway. So there might be no point in summoning them from the beginning because Leknaat would've been in full power and would be able to match Windy's power.

Fliktor · Post by **Fliktor** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:31 pm

It seems logical to me that the reason why Windy didn't make a drastic move like that in the first place is because all of the generals would, in my opinion, have stood against her

I doubt that would happen as Kwanda and Millich were under the influence of the Black Rune; I imagine she could have controlled the others with little effort if she needed.

Barbarossa on the other hand might have thought enough was enough as he was never under the influence, but turned a love's blind eye to most of the badness she started.

Zotmaster · Post by **Zotmaster** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:27 pm

That's a good point, but they also were able to overcome it because loyalty to the Empire came before loyalty to Windy for the later cases. Seems logical that this particular case would be no exception.

Killey's got a good theory too. In any case, I think we've come to the conclusion that whatever the case was, it wasn't a plot hole.

suikofanUk · Post by **suikofanUk** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:22 pm

Also i just had a thought

we all know that Yuber can also summon creatures (suikoden 2) and he does have a true rune.

now i know that it doesn't say anything about Yuber summoning in suikoden 1, but he could have lent his power/expertise in this field.

just a thought.

Zotmaster · Post by **Zotmaster** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:55 pm

My theory:

There are two constants when it comes to Yuber. One is he loves causing chaos and death on a large scale, and the second is he will not stick around if things are looking bleak.

As you say, he could have summoned creatures to aid the Scarlet Moon Empire, but he chose not to. My wager is that he decided that it wasn't worth the expenditure of energy. Remember how fatigued Sarah would get in Suikoden 3 when she summoned creatures? I'd have to imagine Yuber would feel at least a little bit of strain. Yuber was only there as a hired mercenary anyway. Why would he bother exherting himself for a cause like that? I figure that he didn't care who won: he just wanted to kill some people, but in this case, the exhertion wouldn't have been worth it.

He sticks around longer in Suikoden 3, and it seems to make sense as to why: Luc's plan allows for much more death and destruction than fighting for either the Scarlet Moon or Highland empires would have allowed. Yuber is a much more relentless adversary in 3, and I figure it's because Luc's plan finally gives him some motivation to do so.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:36 am

Delete.

Zotmaster · Post by **Zotmaster** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:47 pm

I agree with you, Jowy. However, as I have posted in another topic (Yuber's Rival, maybe?) it seems Yuber's desire to just kill lots of people is greater than his desire to kill a True Rune bearer, as shown in the fact that he offers no open hostility to Luc or even himself despite the fact that both bear True Runes. Destroying a True Rune may have been gravy for Yuber, but Luc's plan also would have resulted in the most deaths of the three games, which is why I figure Yuber stuck around longer.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:18 pm

Delete.

Post by **Vextor** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:36 pm

Windy would not have had the liberty to wage war as she pleased, and it wasn't her interest either. Her goal was to find the Souleater--not to conquer the world. Also, if she were to suddenly be posessed with such ambition, Barbarossa would have made it impossible. He was impervious to her magical control, and although he loved her, he won't have allowed the empire to wage war.