The fundamental powers of the True Runes

Soul Eater · Post by **Soul Eater** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:56 pm

I always imagined that the true runes controlled their own area, for example the True water rune had control over all water, and perhaps without water may not even exist. In the same way I imagined that the Soul Eater governed life and death, perhaps without it there would be no births or deaths. This idea is backed up by the fact that the Dragon Rune allows dragons to exist, as if they are also a force of nature. Is this completely wrong?

I think some of the runes have misleading names, for example the Rune of Punishment. I don't see how it punishes... I mean it causes suffering to the bearer and the people around them... but its hardly like it judges people as good or bad and treats them accordingly. In fact it just seems to harvest lives, and seems to be a completely negative version of the Soul Eater. The two runes are too similar, in my opinion.

Some runes don't seem to govern much though - Blue Moon Rune, Sovereign Rune...

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:00 pm

This might be an interesting read for you since you're interesting in the Treu Runes

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:07 pm

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=341

From about halfway down the third page we started discussing the possibility that if the True Wind Rune were to be destroyed, what would happen to wind itself. I think this topic should stay around though, since the other one wasn't really intended to discuss this sort of stuff.

In my own opinion, if the True Rune of a certain element (or emotion, etc.) were to be destroyed, that part of the world would disappear. For example, if the Blue Moon Rune were to be destroyed, no one could ever be compassionate or destructive ever again (the Blue Moon Rune is also known as the rune of Compassion and Destruction).

In the case of the Sovereign Rune, perhaps there couldn't be any more absolute leaders or something like that.

If that is true, it would be an interesting twist if one of the True Runes were actually destroyed and that certain element disappeared entirely. Who knows, maybe the main quest for the game would be to restore the True Rune and bring its particular element back to the world.

Black Knight Yuber · Post by **Black Knight Yuber** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:36 pm

True Water being gone wouldn't affect water on land if the rune itself were destroyed. If it does has an attachment to all the water and was destroyed then there'd be a problem. That be some quest to restore a True Rune. True Water Rune and that all the water would be gone. Wouldn't that make the enemies team up with you to get the rune backÂ¿ because water is the number 1 priority of survival. Even enemies would be in danger considering that if they bear a True Rune and don't need it. Which I'm sure True bearers need water to live I might be wrong though. Lakes, rivers, etc. would try up killing all the fish. Grass would die without rain, causing the cattle to be weak. Plants would be ruined, Gardeners would also be in jeopardy. You can only go so long without it. That be a pretty good plot to follow if the rune does affect the element it represents.

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader · Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:40 pm

The true Runes are suppose to represent the elements of life and the universe/world that holds it all together.

To destroy a true rune is to defy fate/God and bring unbalance to the universe. Leknaat, the Executor of Balance, will not let that happen.

The rune of punishment doesn't take the lives of the bearer's closest companions/family relatives like the SE. It takes the life of the bearer. The bearer is punished for using the Rune. Those closest to the bearer will feel the sorrow, but they don't have to like Cray.
How did you think Cray felt after losing his son to the Rune?
Cray wanted to use the RoP for shape his destiny and the fate of Kooluk.

The Rune enters the forgiveness phase, if you collect all the 108 stars in suikoden 4, where it stops taking away the life of the bearer. Thus, Hero4, technically, can use the RoP till the end of his days whenever that happens.

(Theory)
Light magic is introduced to the series near the end of suiko 4. Cray uses light magic to awaken the Giant Tree. This light magic would be the bridge into Suikoden 5, which is about the True Sun/Light Rune as speculated.
Light magic, in other games, is mostly defensive/healing magic.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:47 pm

Leknaat can't do shoot when it comes to directly stopping people. She attempted to stop Luc in Suikoden Three, and look how that turned out.

Black Knight Yuber wrote:True Water being gone wouldn't affect water on land if the rune itself were destroyed. If it does has an attachment to all the water and was destroyed then there'd be a problem. That be some quest to restore a True Rune. True Water Rune and that all the water would be gone. Wouldn't that make the enemies team up with you to get the rune backÂ¿ because water is the number 1 priority of survival. Even enemies would be in danger considering that if they bear a True Rune and don't need it. Which I'm sure True bearers need water to live I might be wrong though. Lakes, rivers, etc. would try up killing all the fish. Grass would die without rain, causing the cattle to be weak. Plants would be ruined, Gardeners would also be in jeopardy. You can only go so long without it. That be a pretty good plot to follow if the rune does affect the element it represents.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It'd be very interesting to see how things would work out if a True Rune were to actually be destroyed and how that would affect anything.

Soul Eater · Post by **Soul Eater** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:06 pm

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader wrote:The rune of punishment doesn't take the lives of the bearer's closest companions/family relatives like the SE. It takes the life of the bearer. The bearer is punished for using the Rune.

I was referring to the RoP vapourising those in the surrounding area, like when we first see it used, and also to the mental strain that the bearers friends/family must be under.

Fair enough, it punishes the bearer, but this doesn't seem like a defining feature for a true rune. It basically forces the bearer to use it by putting them into dangerous situations, it is not fair, I don't see it as punishment but rather just causing pain & suffering.

Light magic is introduced to the series near the end of suiko 4. Cray uses light magic to awaken the Giant Tree. This light magic would be the bridge into Suikoden 5, which is about the True Sun/Light Rune as speculated.
Light magic, in other games, is mostly defensive/healing magic.

Could the Bright Sheild be light magic?

Chris_Lightfellow · Post by **Chris_Lightfellow** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:47 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=341

From about halfway down the third page we started discussing the possibility that if the True Wind Rune were to be destroyed, what would happen to wind itself. I think this topic should stay around though, since the other one wasn't really intended to discuss this sort of stuff.

In my own opinion, if the True Rune of a certain element (or emotion, etc.) were to be destroyed, that part of the world would disappear. For example, if the Blue Moon Rune were to be destroyed, no one could ever be compassionate or destructive ever again (the Blue Moon is also known as the rune of Compassion and Destruction).

In the case of the Sovereign Rune, perhaps there couldn't be any more absolute leaders or something like that.

If that is true, it would be an interesting twist if one of the True Runes were actually destroyed and that certain element disappeared entirely. Who knows, maybe the main quest for the game would be to restore the True Rune and bring its particular element back to the world.

So, according to your theory, if the SE was destroyed there would be no more life or death?

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:52 pm

This will also help

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:04 pm

So, according to your theory, if the SE was destroyed there would be no more life or death?

Until the rune was restored, yes. Something that also ties into this is that if a True Rune is destroyed it can also be re-created. That's another theory of mine conerning True Runes.

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader · Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:32 pm

Leknaat will support the people (heroes of suikoden) that strive to achieve balance.

Humans still have control of their destiny, that's why Leknaat can't do very much except give you bonuses for recruiting all 108 characters to help you on your way.

Since the true runes were created along with the universe at the beginning of time, wouldn't you need to recreate the universe to re-create a true rune?

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:42 pm

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader wrote:Leknaat will support the people (heroes of suikoden) that strive to achieve balance.

Yup, she does that. Are you saying that she would gather people together to stop the destruction of a True Rune? I'll agree with that.

Humans still have control of their destiny, that's why Leknaat can't do very much except give you bonuses for recruiting all 108 characters to help you on your way.

See, that's where you kinda contradict yourself. You said Leknaat would do something about someone destroying a True Rune, and then you say she can't do very much. So, she would try to stop someone and fail? In that case, it wouldn't really matter if she tried or not, since she'd fail anyway.

Since the true runes were created along with the universe at the beginning of time, wouldn't you need to recreate the universe to re-create a true rune?

Well, that's the same as saying that destroying a True Rune would destory the universe. I don't really know either way, but it doesn't seem like destroying a True Rune would destroy the universe.

Yuber · Post by **Yuber** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:31 pm

so your saying if there was no circle rune that gives leadership and authroity or is this the soverign rune? anyway in the case your saying that everyone would be equal and no 1 would follow or obey any 1 i dout it even luc says by destroying the true rune he'd give freedom to humans, also if the SE was destroyed what would happened to some 1 whos head was chopped off would his head talk? and would everyone be immortal? it sounds good but you do need think about the bigger picture even if the runes are destroyed.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:36 pm

I understand what I'm saying, heh. That's why I'm saying it'd be an interesting twist to see what would happen if a True Rune were to actually be destroyed. Would people be able to live forever without a rune ruling over that particular element? Would they just continue as normal, not even noticing that one of the twenty-seven true runes has been destroyed? Or would something else entirely happen? Nobody knows; that's why it'd be interesting.

Luc says that it would give humans freedom because he believes they could escape the future of the world being dominated by Order. He doesn't really mean that in any other context, so he might've not even been thinking of the repercussions of the destruction of his True Rune, only thinking about saving the humans and nothing else.

Eroschilles · Post by **Eroschilles** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:57 pm

I have always believed that the true runes were the embodiment of the areas from which they come and that they didn't govern the area, but merely are a great concentration of the area.

If they governed the area, then with time a bearer could govern the area through the use of the rune. For example: Geddoe, who bears the True Lightning Rune would not be affected negatively by lightning from other runes or natural lightning. In fact he may be able to control some aspects of the weather around him, like summoning a thunder storm to produce lightning. I know that in the gameplay there are moves which look like lightning summoned from the storm, but I'm not talking about a single bolt or even a couple. I'm talking about the ability to summon whole storms of thunder.

So, if a true rune were to be destroyed, it would probably cause a great amount of damage to the surrounding area (like a whole country) because of the built up energy a rune has from being a true rune. I don't think it would take out the area it represented from the world with it.

The thing about the true runes being created at the begining of time and being like gods is just a way that the people of the Suikoden world can explain something that is beyond their comprehension. Like for the ancient Greeks, lightning was Zeus smitting the wicked with his thunder bolts.