Jowy

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
Jowy Atreides
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

I seem to remember Yuber calling him a bearer of a "cursed rune" and not a True Rune bearer specifically. Even if he did say that, the translation would be incorrect, since we know that Bright Shield and Black Sword are not True Runes.

Also, which case are you talking about: Black Sword and Bright Shield or the Gate Rune? I'll just use both. With the Gate Rune, it was already coffee. When it was split it became two half cups of coffee. If you were to put the runes back together they would make the full cup of coffee again.

With the Rune of Beginning, it has always been in the form of Black Sword and Bright Shield, and they would be the coffee grounds and water. Once the Rune of Beginning is made whole, it would be a full cup of coffee. If it were to be forcibly split it would make the Rune of Beginning halves and not Black Sword and Bright Shield again.

I don't know what you're talking about with "constantly forming together and splitting apart like it does." I imagine that if you combined the halves of the Rune of Beginning you'd get the Rune of Beginning again. I wonder if you could even make Black Sword and Bright Shield again once you've gotten the full Rune of Beginning.
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Fury
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Post by Fury »

You have to think about that, though.

It had to exist before Genkaku and Han bore the halves, being that the True Runes were created when Sword broke and Shield shattered. When it was created, it was the Rune of Beginning, in its entirety. It is already stated that when the bearer of one destroys the bearer of the other, the rune becomes whole, forming the Rune of Beginning. That brings up a few questions.

#1 - What happened before Genkaku and Han? How did they get the runes?

#2 - The runes were sealed away separately in S2, but... [spoiler] in one of the endings of S2, we see Riou kill Jowy and regain the Black Sword Rune, completing the Rune of Beginning.

With those stated, we know this:

A) Upon creation, the Rune of Beginning was whole, as 1 rune.

B) The rune was split at least once, and placed in the hands of Han Cunningham and Genkaku.

C) The Rune of Beginning CAN be reassembled.

If I'm correct, A, B, and C, prove that it can be remade after it has been separated, and if were separated before, it can be separated again.[/spoiler]
KFCrispy
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Post by KFCrispy »

The Rune of Beginning also simply appears in the "best ending" of S2, when Jowy lives.

in fact, it seems the Sword and Shield are meant to be physically apart and that the dynamic relationship crafted by the holders triggers the Rune of Beginning to *activate* and make good stuff happen, for lack of better words. the physical joining of the rune seems to be failure, because nothing miraculous happens in the Jowy-dies ending. but does Riou get to live forever? i doubt it.. the rune probably just waits until it leaves the bearer (or the bearer dies) and naturally splits itself up to begin the process again.
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Fury
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Post by Fury »

Jowy Atreides wrote:I seem to remember Yuber calling him a bearer of a "cursed rune" and not a True Rune bearer specifically. Even if he did say that, the translation would be incorrect, since we know that Bright Shield and Black Sword are not True Runes.
I finally found what I KNEW Yuber said. If you have it, refer to page 76 of your Official Prima Strategy Guide for Suikoden II. There is a screenshot of before you fight the Bone Dragon in the Liberation of Greenhill. Yuber says, and I quote:

"You are [Hero]...
Bearer of a True Rune...
An accursed child..."

It says it right there on the page and on the screen if you check back on the game.

Problem solved. The Bright Shield is a True Rune.

Konami wouldn't have had Yuber say it if it weren't true.
Jowy Atreides
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

It's right in my quote what my counter would be if you found out that Yuber specifically said True Rune. The translation is wrong, the Bright Shield Rune is not a True Rune.
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MatildaWhiteKnightLeader
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Post by MatildaWhiteKnightLeader »

The Bright Shield Rune is 1/2 of a True Rune (Rune of Beginning). I don't think it's a True Rune by itself also. Also in suikoden 3, you buy the Shield Rune from Jeane's shop in Brass Castle (unlimited stock). So it's not unique as a True Rune should be.
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Fury
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Post by Fury »

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader wrote:The Bright Shield Rune is 1/2 of a True Rune (Rune of Beginning). I don't think it's a True Rune by itself also. Also in suikoden 3, you buy the Shield Rune from Jeane's shop in Brass Castle (unlimited stock). So it's not unique as a True Rune should be.
Read what you just said. You buy the SHIELD rune, not the BRIGHT SHIELD rune. It's the same as the case of the Blue Gate or Pale Gate rune and the actual Gate Rune. Those runes spawn from a true rune. Just like Fire runes spawn from the True Fire Rune, etc. The spells aren't the same, either.
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Post by demon eye »

The fact of the matter is that the Bright Shield Rune and the Black Sword Rune are not True Runes. It's even sketchy to say they are 1/2 of a True Rune because this is not necessarily true, as well. The fact is that you cannot take the Bright Shield Rune and get half of the Rune of Beginning and you can't take the Black Sword Rune to get half of the Rune of Beginning. There is no such thing as half of the Rune of Beginning. You have to have both Bright Shield and Black Sword Runes to gain the Rune of Beginning. So, by saying they are 1/2 of that True Rune is a misnomer and borderline confusing although the analysis can ring true. The Bright Shield and Black Sword Runes are just unique runes.
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Fury
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Post by Fury »

Ok, I give up.

But I still assert that the Bright Shield is common like MatildaWhiteKnightLeader said in his post. Different runes.
demon eye
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Post by demon eye »

The Shield Rune is common, not the Bright Shield Rune.
Siel Avadon
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Post by Siel Avadon »

It's like the darkness rune. Just because it's simular to Soul eater doesnt mean soul eater exists in 100's. Its just parts.

But "Fire rune -` Rage rune -` True Fire rune? Do they come out of each other this way?
Jeane, The Marilyn Monroe of Suikoden.
KFCrispy
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Post by KFCrispy »

as for this Bright Shield true rune business, maybe we should just take a look at the suikosource information Blue Moon had gathered from various sources of information.

http://www.suikosource.com/history/truerunes/
A True Rune representing the "initial chaos of birth" inherent in times of creation. This True Rune is always found separated into the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes, and bearers of these two runes are bound by the rune's power to fight against each other until only one survives to win the other half. Scholars are uncertain whether the Black Sword and Bright Shield are the same "sword" and "shield" from the legends of creation, and no one knows what exact power the Rune of the Beginning bears. It is said that the rune grants its owner the power to "judge war."

The Black Sword Rune is one of the halves of the Rune of the Beginning. Representing the offensive power necessary for "the beginning," this rune holds devastating powers. Much of the power is manifested in the form of swords, and all of its spells unleash painful attacks with magical swords.

The Bright Shield Rune is the other half of the Rune of the Beginning. Representing the power to protect "the beginning," this rune holds tremendous defensive powers. Many of its spells heal its bearer and those who are with the bearer in spirit. It is also said that those who are close to this rune won't die even when they suffer wounds that would have otherwise killed them.
Zulias
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Alright.

Post by Zulias »

The Tenkai star isn't necissarily the bearer of a true rune. As proven in Suikoden 3. The true-rune status of the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes belongs in a different topic.

That being said, I have often wondered myself if Jowy was collecting the 108 stars as well, and merely failed.

He most certainly was recruiting throughout the storyline. Leon Silverburg, Lucia and Yuber all are examples. He also has a list of allies that show up as stars in other games, proving that they at least fit the mold.

Another point: Yes, only one tenkai star can exist at a time on any given side, but the Rune of the Beginning tries to make both it's halves fight, wouldn't it attempt to give them fair sides? Perhaps destiny was to put two Tenkai's against each other, and see which one would find strength in the right place first.

I see no reason it's not possible, only the results of Jowy's failure to do so.
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