Leon Silverberg betraying Jowy

Post by **Vextor** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:49 pm

Not in the game, but Murayama (director of Suikoden 2) states that the fact that Shu had to rely on luck at the burning forest was a painful admission of defeat on Shu's part--that his knowledge of military tactics is still below that of Leon's.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:56 pm

I see

is there any website or any way to see the interview with murayama in english?

id really love to see them

Reinbach_III · Post by **Reinbach_III** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:08 pm

I think that the only real flaw in Leon's strategy was that he didn't know anything about Pilika. If Pilika didn't come into play the war could have ended quickly, though which side won would depend on Shu:

If Shu didn't spot the trap, Riou and Teresa would have been killed resulting in a Highland victory.

If Shu spotted the trap;

Shirofan wrote:The stupid thing about it was that if Shu had been as ruthless as Leon then he could have had the entire Highland command structure present there taken out in one fell swoop; even if it did cost the lives of Riou and Teresa.

without Pilika this would have been Shu's best option. I think that Leon was aware of this and wished to end the war even if it cost him his own life. The City State would have all the living strategists and Highland would be demoralised, having had three kings killed in a very short peroid of time. Shu would have gone on to win the war easily and quickly.

Post by **Vextor** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:29 pm

son_michael wrote:I see

is there any website or any way to see the interview with murayama in english?

id really love to see them

Nope, the interview is included in the Suikoden 2 108 characters guide, which only exists in Japanese.

I think that the only real flaw in Leon's strategy was that he didn't know anything about Pilika.

Well, the problem is that Pilika is basically a nobody, so it would require Leon to be a god to know much of anything about her, unless Jowy told Leon that "once he knew a girl..." etc.

It is analogous to saying that Austria-Hungary Archduke Franz Ferdinand's flaw was that he didn't know anything about Gavrilo Princip (who he never met or heard of in his life), who assassinated him. Sort of a lot to expect.

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:43 pm

But you shall reconsider that Shu is young and allready a skillful tactican, Leon on the other wat got years of experience, He might not be as "gifted" or "talanted" as Shu but experience is what he have and experience is better then theoryÂ´s.

Also that Culgan or Seed, can remember which of them is sended to the castle of the new formed City state army was a really gamling move, what if the City state turned to old hostility and decapitated Seed/Culgans head!

Irish Pesmerga · Post by **Irish Pesmerga** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:21 pm

SARSadmin wrote:Not in the game, but Murayama (director of Suikoden 2) states that the fact that Shu had to rely on luck at the burning forest was a painful admission of defeat on Shu's part--that his knowledge of military tactics is still below that of Leon's.

well all strategies depend on a bit of luck, it was ingenius because putting ones self in danger was alien to Leon, and thats why it worked

highwind44029 · Post by **highwind44029** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Shu knew it was a trap, and he knew how to counter it. If not for Pilika, I don't think he would have let Riou and Teresa go to Muse. He's too smart for that. As for Leon, it was a factor that was beyond his control. Although he should've been smart enough to know that Shu had to have a backup plan.

Post by **Vextor** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:11 pm

Yeah, that is true.
The fact that the only soldiers able to stop them were way too weak to defeat Riou and bunch.

Silver Dragon Flik · Post by **Silver Dragon Flik** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:07 pm

I always thought that Shu knew that Leon would never think that Shu would risk his life by burning the forest. Thus surprising Leon with a crushing blow.

Irish Pesmerga · Post by **Irish Pesmerga** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:46 pm

Silver Dragon Flik wrote:I always thought that Shu knew that Leon would never think that Shu would risk his life by burning the forest. Thus surprising Leon with a crushing blow.

yes, read the perfect quote in my signature. Since Leon is the greatest strategist ever, Shu had to think outside the box to outwit him, sure he risked his life in it, and i honestly thought he was screwed when it happened, as so did he. But in the end, it worked

RageRune · Post by **RageRune** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:55 pm

Also that Culgan or Seed, can remember which of them is sended to the castle of the new formed City state army was a really gamling move, what if the City state turned to old hostility and decapitated Seed/Culgans head!

Culgan was sent to the Dunan Castle. It was a gambling move on Leon's part to send Culgan there, because the soliders in Riou's army would've killed him, but since Riou himself was escorting Culgan to the castle (keep in mind Culgan traveled from Muse which was in Highland control at the time, so he was'nt in great danger) then there was'nt any chance that anyone could kill Culgan.

Now as for the plan of Riou and Teresa to go to Jowstown Hill, it's obvious from the start that Shu was distrusting of the truce, so that's why he sent Viktor and the others to follow Riou and Teresa to Muse. Of course there is'nt any confirmation that Leon knew that Shu would see right through the truce so I don't know if Leon sent Culgan to Dunan Castle on purpose. That's the best that I can explain about that part.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:35 pm

your wrong, there was no gamble whatsoever,leon knew that riou would embrace A peace treaty and culgan wouldnt be in any danger at all{because that would destroy any hope of peace and so riou would never allow culgan to be hurt} leon also knew that shu would believe it was a trap but figured that the desire for peace would cloud rious judgment and they would let down there guard regardless of shus advice, but leon had no knowledge of pilika and jowys love for her but shu did which is why leons plain failed miserably

and did you ever think the reason culgan was chosen to deliver the letter was because he has good diplomatic skills? because its obvious culgan wasnt anywhere near rious castle after he delivered the letter

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:11 pm

The reasoning behind Leon sending Culgan is because this would show that
the treaty is "real" and that they trust Riou and co. enough to send one of their generals to deliver the letter personally, to show that they mean business.

Culgan wasn't in danger? How did you come to that conclusion? Waltzing into enemy headquarters with their leader in tow is dangerous, if you ask me. Although peace was the eventual goal the only means to accomplish this was through the war. By killing Culgan they could've critically wounded Highland (or at the very least, their morale). Shu realized that killing an enemy general inside their own headquarters wouldn't be right, or fair, especially since he was sent with news of a peace treaty.

Irish Pesmerga · Post by **Irish Pesmerga** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:56 am

also i wouldnt be honourable and isnt that what most of these games are about?
Culgan was a noble character, and an honourable one. By sending him, Leon had a better illusion of actually wanting a peace treaty.