Leon Silverberg betraying Jowy

neclord_is_Alive · Post by **neclord_is_Alive** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:24 pm

I think I read here somewhere that Leon only joined up so that Highland would lose?
Far-fetched

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:50 pm

The job of a strategist is to seek victory with the least amount of casualties and by the simplest means available. Leon Silverberg lives by that creed. I seriously doubt he would give his services to Highland and Jowy just to lose. That would be a serious waste of an excellent strategist. Also, if he wanted Highland to lose, there would be no point for him releasing the final seal on the Beast Rune. So, I think it's safe to say that he joined the Highland Army to help them win and actually felt they had a chance to win and maybe even Jowy was a potential good for the people.

josiskrazy · Post by **josiskrazy** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:23 pm

he helped Jowy kill off Luca Blight...thats pretty much his only betrayal Highland...becuz he knew that by killing off Luca and having Jowy as King there would prolly be less casualties...as Luca was just crazy and wanted all City States citizens dead.

xXSqualleoNXx · Post by **xXSqualleoNXx** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:24 pm

Basically Leon joined Jowy to Defeat Luca from the inside rather than attacking him head-on (Like Riou was doing). I read that Leon thought Highlands was more fitting to rule over the area seen as how they had the more powerfull army and a centralized and organized country. I guess Leon prefers a central ruler rather than our own more divided one.

So the answer to your original question would be that, no, Leon was not betraying Jowy. He was helping him.

Irish Pesmerga · Post by **Irish Pesmerga** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:13 pm

yes, but Leon also joined because he wanted to be rememebed, he said that only in times of war, are the strategists remembered or something like that. That may also be part of teh reason he joined Highland, as he felt that was the side more likely to win, and therefore he would be remembered for being on the Winning side, just like he was in Toran and during the War of Succession

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:01 pm

I don't believe Leon Silverberg would join a war just to be remembered. If you recall, he was thoroughly uninterested in joining the Liberation Army in Suikoden 1. I would take Leon to have negative sentiments towards war in general, but that is the only arena in which he can display his talents. Leon is a firm believer that people should do what they are capable of doing.

That is most likely the reason he joined, because he believed he was the only one who could correctly do the job. Leon is not interested in being popular or remembered. He would most likely want to fade awayand be forgotten because when strategists are needed that means the world is in turmoil. He truly doesn't have a high opinion of his profession, but he believes they are necessary.

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:51 pm

His just a old bucket thinking about himself, wanting to be known. Thats why he joined Highland, since they was a rich kingdom. Highland hade a idiot king which would cause high causalties so he fixed his death with Jowy

He maybe joined only to test or try Shu, Since he was MathÃue top student and Leon and him wasnt really friends, you see that in Suikoden I!

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:56 pm

Umm, Leon Silverberg was already the most widely known Strategist in the Toran Area and further away than that. I seriously doubt he was looking to be known as he is already quite popular and history even discusses his feats.

Also, Leon never really had an issue with Mathiu, it was actually Mathiu who had a problem with his teachings. Shu actually seemed to favor Leon's logic and I believe this is kind of discussed. That's why Shu ended up leaving Mathiu's school.

Reinbach_III · Post by **Reinbach_III** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:16 am

Leon was just looking for a fast end to the war with minimal casualties. He got rid of Luca to stop him from killing every member of the City State. After that consider the events at Jowston Hill. Had Jowy not stopped him, Riou and Teresa would have been killed, leading to a quick Highland victory. Although he didn't join to make sure that the Highland lost, he didn't care which side won.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:38 am

I gotta say

shus counter to leons strategy at jowstin hill was ingenius! uncle jowy would never harm pilika... thus ensuring rious safety and the city states freedom

shu is a much better strategist in my oppinion

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:28 am

That trap was patethic, a meeting in enemy land without your army in the closening, on the other side of a lake in a city which was torn apart by a evil rune. You really feels that something wrong when that happens

Shirofan · Post by **Shirofan** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:54 am

The stupid thing about it was that if Shu had been as ruthless as Leon then he could have had the entire Highland command structure present there taken out in one fell swoop; even if it did cost the lives of Riou and Teresa.

All he'd need is for someone like Adlai to cook up some form of explosive device and he could have removed the threat of Highland in one fell swoop.

All Leon would have been able to do would be to take out two leaders from a group of several; they may have been the most important ones at the time but they were not strategists, more like mascots; all he would have made is martyrs.

Leon's biggest failure is his arrogance, he considers himself to be the best (he does have some justification for this) and so he views all of his plans as perfect. He underestimates people and forgets at times to allow for emotional factors in judgement.

For a master strategist to place the totality of his side's leadership in a dangerous position to spring a completely obvious trap, from the conversation in the Great Hall they all knew it was likely to be one, is a massive failing.
The fact that he further compounded the error by misjudging the actions of both the enemy and his liege does not display the strategic qualities he is supposed to possess.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:31 pm

I agree that leons trap was stupid

especially against shu who is no fool

but if you think about it leon probably banked on riou and teresa going to them because of there desire for the war to end and for there to be peace so it didnt matter if shu knew it was an obvious trap, jowy probably told him that riou would come no matter what and leon most likely thought the same about teresa,what leon and jowy didnt count on was pilika being there.

Jowy obviously didnt even think of pilika as he was completley shocked to see her and leon obviously didnt even know pilika existed so shu had the advantage and he took it

so bassically if it wasnt for pilika being there leons strategy would not have failed and riou and acting mayor teresa would be dead thus bringing an almost sure defeat to the city state army

so In conclusion I would say that it didnt matter if leons trap sucked because it would have all worked out if not for little pilika

thats why shu is such a genuise

Post by **Vextor** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:45 pm

Still, as Leon Silverberg is still officially the best strategist in the Suikoden series, and Shu untimately admitted defeat against Leon, it's pretty much pointless to argue that Shu is better than Leon. That is to be kept within the realm of fanfiction.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:48 pm

I havent beaten 2 yet.. I didnt know shu admits defeat to leon....