Rune of punishement and immortality

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:49 am

You kind of missed my point.

She wasn't protecting him from getting the rune--she was protecting him from the others' USE of the rune so he COULD get it.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:47 pm

Not really, I just don't see why his mother would want him to acquire a cursed rune which you are saying. You are saying that his mother protected him so he could get a True Rune that could have possibly killed him and even if it doesn't (which it didn't) he will have to live forever and watch everyone he held dear to him die and suffer with that for all eternity. Hmm, I just don't see a mother wishing that sort of fate on her son. But, that's just my take on it.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:55 pm

Perahps she cannot control whom the rune attaches itself to, but rather what happens after that (while it's on the person).

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:01 pm

Based on what we've seen, it's all based on destiny and fate. I seriously doubt that eventhough she was a past bearer that she has any control of how it will affect it's bearer. The bearer has to live his own destiny and pave his own way and control the True Rune by their own will. It was just Lazlo's destiny to be the bearer to take the Rune of Punishment into its forgiveness phase and I don't think the mom had much to do with it at all. But, who knows??

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:08 am

Remember that Luc's Rune showed him a future that Luc didn't want?

Perhaps the RoP showed the bearers a future, and those "souls" trapped in the rune saw who could end the pain the Rune caused.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:39 am

Actually, the Rune of Punishment allowed the next bearer to see the memories of the past bearers. So, he would have to first acquire the Rune of Punishment and then atone for the sins of each bearer in the past thus defeating each memory before him. So, I would find it very difficult for the past bearers to predict who would eventually become the destined bearer. Plus, each bearer called it a curse and happily gave it off to the next saying you'll be the next to be sacrificed to the will of this cursed rune..heheheh. Doesn't sound like they were wishing that person a hopeful future to me. It was simply fate and destiny.

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:32 pm

All the True Runes allow the bearers to see the memories of their past bearers--according to Luc. So, how could the Wind Rune show him a future?

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:33 pm

We don't know that all the True Runes allow their bearers to see the memories of their past bearers. For example, we never see Tir talking about the memories of Ted and his grandfather. Not to mention the Beast Rune, Sovereign Rune, Gate Rune, Night Rune or the Blue Moon Rune which we haven't heard anything about memories being shared. So, we can't assume all True Runes behave that way.

As for how Luc saw the "future" through his True Wind Rune. Well, he like Geddoe, Sasarai and Wyatt, had been connected to their True Runes for a very long period of time. It is very likely that the bearer and the True Rune inherited a very intertwined relationship with one another after being with each other for so long. That is most likely why they could hear the voices and obtain visions from their True Runes. Note, we have not heard of new bearers being able to obtain visions from a True Rune without the aid of a more experienced True Rune bearer. So, that is how I would explain that.

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:46 pm

I like talking to you demon eye--you make this fun!

But--I have to disagree about the Night Rune. It's the Star Dragon Sword, after all--and it will actually talk to you if it thinks you're worthy enough...LOL

So--are you saying that Leknaat's visions are the result of her "expertise" with runes?

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:01 pm

Yes and no. Leknaat is a seer and her visions aren't related to her Gate Rune. It is related to her reading the stars and the fact that she is the Executor of Balance. She is more intune with the Wheel of Fate, thus sensitive to the workings of the World. But, I do believe that her sensitivity to the world is linked to the Gate Rune which holds the worlds together. So, I believe her expertise with the Gate Rune does play a part along with her natural talents. Note that Windy does not share the same skill, so obviously the Gate Rune is not the only thing necessary for the visions.

And the Zodiac Sword is an incarnation of the Night Rune. We don't know what the true form of it is. For all intents and purposes, the Zodiac Sword could be an actual mortal who transformed into that sword with the aid of the Night Rune and has chosen that form.

Recall, that Sierra mocks the Zodiac Sword's new form so it seems like she has seen it in another state before. Sierra wouldn't talk to a True Rune like that so I believe that the sword is an actual person and the Night Rune is disguised by the bearer who is a person who can take different shapes and forms.

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:48 am

Hmmm....I don't recall Sierra mocking him--but that's okay--I'm on a Suikoden run right now. Just about finished with 1 and headed to 2--so, I'll see it.

Actually--we don't know if Windy doesn't share the same skill--she may not have realized she could do it. After all--she was more intent on finding the Soul eater and destroying the world than anything else. Hate can make you do weird things.

Was Leknaat able to sense the future before she went blind? If not--then I think she discovered her ability by accident. Usually, when a person is struck blind--they use their other senses to compensate. So, perhaps while doing this, Leknaat discovered that she had a different sight that she couldn't perceive when she wasn't blind. And, since she had hundreds of years to practice, she was the expert who helped Luc with his "vision."

Basel · Post by **Basel** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:09 am

Moonbay wrote:she was the expert who helped Luc with his "vision."

She did not help him. As a matter of fact she tried to stop him but she couldn't since her power did not help her to do so. If you remember, she called him a fool at the end of SIII.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:03 pm

Actually, we do know that Windy could not due it. Remember that Windy was the more accomplished sorceress than Leknaat. She exceeded her in every magical ability other than defensive wards. So, I'd think that if Windy had the ability to read the stars and read the Wheel of Fate then she would have done it. It would have made her search for the Soul Eater quite a bit easier. Aside from that she could not even tell Barbarossa had the Sovereign Rune when she was always near him. Obviously she clearly did not have the ability.

Leknaat's ability to read the stars more than likely has nothing to do with her loss of sight. Remember that Hellion took over for her when she quit being the astrologist and I do believe Hellion could see. Also, that right there shows that Leknaat did not necessarily need the Gate Rune for this skill since Hellion could do it, as well. Also, remember that Piccolo form Suikoden 3 had similar abilities. I think it's just based on talent and natural ability. Of course, the Gate Rune probably helped her, but I'm certain she had the skill before she went blind.

And Basel is correct. Leknaat did not teach Luc to have the "vision". Luc makes it quite obvious that he always had the ability to connect with the True Wind Rune and it had frequently shown him things. Leknaat taught Luc summoning and how to perform natural sorcery. Luc was already an accomplished mage just by the fact that he was always so close to a True Rune. She just helped him refine his skills. Leknaat can't teach a bearer how to see the visions his or her True Rune gives them. That is personal and each bearer will have to become close to the True Rune in order to attain those visions.

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:17 am

And Windy may have chosen not to use her ability to read the Wheel of Fate. She knew what she wanted. She knew that when she got her hands on the Soul Eater--the world was doomed. (Seriously, it would be nice to have a game take place during the time of their Clan....)

And I never said that the Gate Rune was responsible for her ability to sense the future. Nope. Never. I said that maybe she discovered her talent AFTER she went blind. It could have happened.

Anyway--I never said that Leknaat taught him how to have a "vision," but helped him with it. You know--kind of like going to a psychiatrist and telling your dreams to him?

And she called Luc a fool not for having a vision--but for carrying out his plan. Because if she called him a fool for HIS visions, then she's a fool as well. (Wouldn't it be nice to play as her for once?)

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:28 pm

We're not sure if Windy could tell that Barbarossa had the Sovereign Rune or not. The Sovereign Rune might've cancelled her magic, which would've made it very stupid of her to steal the Rune from him. Of course, you could argue that she didn't know that he had the Rune because she attempted to control him with a Black Rune, but she might've not known how powerful the Sovereign Rune was, and that it could cancel out her Black Rune.