What happens to the Rune of Punishment? [Spoiler]

WindFalcon · Post by **WindFalcon** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:56 pm

They do Mention Graham Cray using the Rune before, since he says at the end 'Why do you not wish to return to me?' or something along those lines. I beleive.. that Graham Cray had it AFTER his son, since it is only natural for a man to be with his son at his death, and gained the Rune. In his grief, he most likely cut off his own arm, since that guantlet of his appears to be a prosthetic arm of some sort.

... but my question is, does Cray have a rune of his own? Something on his hand glowed to make the Tree Monster come to life, and i am dying to know what it is! I mean... he killed Scarlet Moon nobles.... perhaps he held a True Rune of his own? Maybe even being one of the past owners of the Sovereign Rune?

Sesshomaru · Post by **Sesshomaru** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:18 pm

same here maybe he has a bit of the rune? Or dunno and did he really cut of his arm?? wow hes soo cool this game has so many plot things.. Also does it say who got the rune and stuff at the end?

InternetJordo · Post by **InternetJordo** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:43 pm

It'll probably be explained in the novel, but I also assumed that it became the Rune of Atonement, and stayed with Hero. Now, when he woke up at the end, was this before or after the Obel ceremony?

Beer · Post by **Beer** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:02 pm

when and where does it say that the rune has diffrent phases? it is the rune of antonement and forgiveness both i dont think it swithches on and off

Makumaku · Post by **Makumaku** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:10 pm

Leknaat explains all of it towards the end I believe.

suikodenherodrake · Post by **suikodenherodrake** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:54 am

Wouldn't it be weird if the Rune, like the Gate and Beginning Runes, split in two? One half Atonement, the other half Forgiveness. That's just something I came up with and it's probably stupid to most people. I just thought of that just now so..... yeah.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:03 pm

It wouldn't be weird at all. In a sense every True Rune has sort of a duality to them. I don't think the Rune of Punishment will split, though, but it is not unlikely.

I just find it rather odd that Leknaat would have the ability to trigger a change in a True Rune. As I took it, the Hero of Suikoden 4 was willing to sacrifice himself to use the Rune of Punishment to Atone for the crimes of so many others. By seeing his conviction, I believed the Rune of Punishment absolved its desire for Atonement and shifted its desire to Forgiveness of the Hero. But, we obviously see Leknaat appear and flash a light on the Hero when you collect all 108 Stars of Destiny. So, she is becoming more and more suspicious to me.

Post by **patapi** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:46 pm

She isn't the one who trigger the phase change per se. She just happens to be the person who 'sees it all' and decided to appear before the Hero to inform him. (Her character had always been intended as a seer since the very beginning of the series). It was ultimately the true rune's own nature.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:57 pm

Thank you for clearing that up, as I was beginning to grow concerned about the True Rune's behavior if she could control them. As I figured, it was the bearer who imposes the change. Leknaat had me doubting myself for a second.

lonely_fighter · Post by **lonely_fighter** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:20 pm

leknat did remove the curse of the rune of punishment,the proof:try using eternal ordeal or the 2e level magic after you gained all 108 stars of destiny and after leeknat come visit you in your room and tell you things bout the rune and the future, RIGHT after this event you will never lose hp anymore when doing eternal ordeal or any others spells

lonely_fighter · Post by **lonely_fighter** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:23 pm

sorry if anyone already said it i jumped to the most important

Post by **patapi** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:27 pm

The phase change from atonement to forgiveness removed all side-effects of all spells on the rune. That's why.

Leknaat only appeared to inform you about it. She didn't trigger the phase change, it's your actions that did.

Turin Turambar · Post by **Turin Turambar** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:00 pm

I wouldn't even call it a 'phase change'. But it did change its desire. With every rune out there, especially the ones we know that have dualities, the opposing forces are both necessary. Life and death are both inevitabilities and without one, the other is not possible. We live because things like animals and plants die to feed us. Dead bodies, trees and whatever else dies, gives nutrients to the soil to let other things grow. The world was created because of the conflict between Sword and Shield. Conflict is what brings life and power.

Leknaat also said that if the hero decided to give the rune to someone else, it would re-initiate its cycle of violent atonement.

Post by **patapi** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:17 am

That's interesting. If he did pass on the rune to someone else, would it still take his life or would it just leave him alone? The other bearers never made it into the forgiveness stage though.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:35 am

If he made it into the Forgiveness Phase and chose to pass the Rune unto someone else it wouldn't bother him.

The other bearers didn't "pass the rune on" more than the Rune left them after draining them to nothing.

Totally different scenarios.