Highland or City State

Yuber · Post by **Yuber** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:46 pm

after playing the game and reading sourses dont u think it was the state that was the evil and cas it combined all the states army's thought it could go to war because the state started the war with highland, but once luca decided to expand the war it was clear that the highland army was the evil power then

any thoughts?

Stallion · Post by **Stallion** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:20 pm

That's why they created the army under Riou. It was a liberation force independant of either City State or Highland. The main difference is that Highland had kept its military strong, while most of the City State was weak and falling apart.

Most of this was probably due to the fact that Highland had a King where the city-state just bickered within itself.

Neither side in war is ever evil. "War is an exchange of lives"

Yuber · Post by **Yuber** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:00 am

yea but in the past the state used its power to start the war and also try and invade the toran republic a number of times without any real reason

Celsius · Post by **Celsius** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:31 am

How did the State start the war against Highland? In the past, yes. But it was Highland who broke the peace treaty.

Because Jowston is surrounded on all it's borders, (Highland and Harmonian to the North, Grasslands to the west and Toran to the South) it seemed to me that they were trying to fight back. And gain some independence, instead of having to rely on the Grasslands. But there was too much disagreement within the State itself. I wouldn't say they were evil though.

BloodSplitter · Post by **BloodSplitter** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:51 am

I think the Mayor of Muse (the one when Genkaku fought for City-State, Durrell isn't it?) was a bit of a cruel man.

He forced someone to fight and stirke their friend with a sword covered with poison!

He also sent soldiers to attack the Highland Royal Carriage (raping the Queen along the way.)

Chef Boyardee · Post by **Chef Boyardee** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:45 pm

I think the world of Suikoden really is a one-sided world, there's always a clear "good guy" and "bad guy". In the past, it seemed like the State was evil, what with Darril of Muse poisoning Genkaku's sword, and it sounded as if the State had started the war before. Time passed though, and the Highland became the blatantly evil group. The Beast Rune only enforced the fact that they were evil in the story.

I think that's what's kind of lame about Suikoden, that they always clearly present good from evil, there is no gray, merely black and white. But earlier someone made it sound like the State was the aggressor in the battles with the Scarlet Moon Empire. I think they just had a history of bad blood between the two nations, that there was no real 'aggressor'.

Post by **thcrock** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:18 pm

It seemed the majority of the leaders and citizens of both countries were good people. But Darrel was a bad Jowston leader and Luca was a bad Highland leader.

Celsius · Post by **Celsius** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 am

KoRnholio wrote:It seemed the majority of the leaders and citizens of both countries were good people. But Darrel was a bad Jowston leader and Luca was a bad Highland leader.

Exactly. Luca was hell-bent, Darrel was jealous and an amateur when it came to war. But Anabelle was only trying to stop the City-state from ending up in shambles.

Post by **thcrock** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:05 am

Celsius wrote: Exactly. Luca was hell-bent, Darrel was jealous and an amateur when it came to war. But Anabelle was only trying to stop the City-state from ending up in shambles.

And Agares didn't want war either. If Agares had complete control over Highland, there probably wouldn't have been a Dunan Unification War.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:29 pm

There were many triggering factors that resulted in that war.

There would have more likely been a kind of Cold War, but to a much lesser extent as neither had weapons that could do severe amounts of destruction. Agares probably just wanted to end his days being King over his region and living in comfort without any excess stress. This is why Luca had to stage the massacre of the Unicorn Brigade - to make the Highlanders filled with FURY at the treacherous dogs of the City State. It's a strategy must like Leon's in Kalekka - when people are tired or getting apathetic towards war, make them HATE the enemy so much that their only concern is destroying them.

BloodSplitter · Post by **BloodSplitter** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:05 pm

When you talk to that guy when you sneak into the Highland camp. He truely believes that the State is evil and Highland is doing good. *cough evil is in the eye of the beholder cough*

Celsius · Post by **Celsius** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:49 am

BloodSplitter wrote:When you talk to that guy when you sneak into the Highland camp. He truely believes that the State is evil and Highland is doing good. *cough evil is in the eye of the beholder cough*

He think's (like most other Highlanders) that the State massacred the Unicorn Brigade. If it didn't actually show Luca and Rowd talking about it, then I probably would've thought that the State was evil in that sense. They wouldn't have known Luca's intentions at the time.

silentstephi · Post by **silentstephi** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:52 pm

I don't think you can say that the Suikoden plot series has had a black and white type plotline with good and evil here. Suikoden probably has one of the best plots out there simply because it has more believablity to it.

In Suiko 1, the Liberation Army was put together because they saw the old system of government becoming more and more corrupt. The City-State and the Scarlet Empire always had skirmishes, hell, Mathui invited them in just to help take out Kasim's troops; think he would have done that if the City-State was actually "evil"? No, he was just being a smart tactitian and using all the tools available to him.

As for the Highland/City-State conflict, neither side could really be called good or evil, they just are. The only evil Highlander was Luca and his followers, and like someone stated before, Highlanders hated the City-State simply because they thought the City-State killed the Brigade. Same with the old Muse mayor - (can't remeber his name). It didn't mean that the entire country was bad, just the he was a poor leader.

As for what's going on in Suiko 3, with Harmonia and the Xexans and Grasslands and such, i'm not all that familair with it just yet, since I've only played to Chris's chapter 3 (and Hugo 2/ Geddoe2/ Thomas 2), plus I haven't played it recently enough to remember all the juicy details.

But my point basically is, just because the leader is a psycho killer, or cruel, or misguided becuase his new love looks like his dead wife, doesn't mean the entire population is bad. I think that's a sterotype too long associated with real life countries as well. But that's another story...

Asquian · Post by **Asquian** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:23 am

Neither Highland nor the City state were evil. Luca Blight was evil, Alec Wisemail was evil, whoever Muse's mayor before Annabelle was evil. Evil leaders don't make the country evil, it merely means the country has an evil leader.

as to why one had to conquer the other, obviously the two couldn't get along. wars and border skirmishes for years, when it comes to the end, one has to conquer the other.

This doesn't mean highlanders are evil, merely badly misled. And it doesn't mean the City state is good, it simply does what it has to to survive, and has to do some evil to do it.

Maldonado · Post by **Maldonado** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:16 am

There are no good guys or bad guys! Everyone was fighting for his kingdom and everyone tought he's the one who's got the right to claim what belongs to him. Even when Luca invaded Jowston, he tought he had all the right to seek vengeance upon "treacherous" City-State that was responsible for the death of his mother. And that's the whole truth...