Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

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Sasarai10
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Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:51 pm

I mean...since Suikoden was supposed to be set around middle-ages i guess...still i find it bizarre for some grown adults to fight over a 10 year old girll. And yes i'm talking about S5,where many competitors were competing to marry 10 year old Lym.

So i wonder was it appropriate back then for adults to marry 10 year old girls? In our days it's considered utterly illegal.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby wataru14 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:15 pm

Yeah, it was much more common in olden days. People didn't live as long so I guess girls reached puberty at younger ages then than they do now? Regardless, it still happens today in some parts of the world.

In Lym's case, the game mentions how the Sacred Games aren't normally held for someone so young. So it is abnormal, but few people seem to have much to say about that, so it must not be TOO abnormal. I would think that most people would view the marriage as a political betrothal and not expect there to be any romantic connections. The fact that Euram is going out of his way to demonstrate that he desires Lym herself (as opposed to what she represents) is what should really be sending up flags. Of course, in Euram's case it could all be for show.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Antimatzist » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:06 am

Yeah, it was much more common in olden days. People didn't live as long so I guess girls reached puberty at younger ages then than they do now? Regardless, it still happens today in some parts of the world.

1. Wroooong.
1. How are how long you live and when you hit puberty connected? It's not like your body knows when you'll die. The age of puberty is also now decreasing because most girls in the Western world eat properly (and this can onduce an early puberty). On the other hand, stress and emotional instability could also influence the age of your puberty so it's hard to say. I couldn't find the average time girls entered puberty in the middle ages...
2. People still got to the age of 40 and possibly more.
3. It depends on your country, but marriage at this young age wasn't common. Normally, you were 20-25 (women a bit younger maybe).

But this also depends on culture and in the case of Lym, it's even more complicated. For noble houses, it's perfectly normal to arrange the marriage of the offspring at an early age. In a normal scenario, Lym and Gizel would have been engaged before they marry years later. But because of what happens, they marry early.

So i wonder was it appropriate back then for adults to marry 10 year old girls? In our days it's considered utterly illegal.

In the Western world, it is, but there are always (rare) cases of minos being married to older men. This especially happens in the arabic and Indian world. While it's legal, it's not really normal either.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:52 am

I know central Africa very well and I saw many couples there being married and having children at 15. Your body is fertile in your early teens, and in rural Africa you don't live very long. You don't do studies, you don't have to wait, your only goal is to have a big and happy family so you do children early. That's how it is there.

I suppose most of Europe must have been the same until modern times. But to be honest, you should ask this question on a history forum, not here.

Also, in some cultures, children were not married early but their engagement came early, sometimes as early as birth. People only got the right to choose their spouse in modern times. In the past they would be engaged as part of a political or economical alliance between families, and their opinion did not matter. So they were engaged very early to seal that alliance and got actually married once they reached adulthood.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Sasarai10 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:42 am

wataru14 wrote:Yeah, it was much more common in olden days. People didn't live as long so I guess girls reached puberty at younger ages then than they do now? Regardless, it still happens today in some parts of the world.

In Lym's case, the game mentions how the Sacred Games aren't normally held for someone so young. So it is abnormal, but few people seem to have much to say about that, so it must not be TOO abnormal. I would think that most people would view the marriage as a political betrothal and not expect there to be any romantic connections. The fact that Euram is going out of his way to demonstrate that he desires Lym herself (as opposed to what she represents) is what should really be sending up flags. Of course, in Euram's case it could all be for show.


-I don't think puberty changed through the years. But Lym didn't hit puberty yet as it seems. As far as i know puberty kicks in at 11 in girls and at 13 in boys. In some cases it might happen later.

-Now about Euram...guess he was trying to convince you that Barows are better than Godwins maybe? And it would benefit the Prince if Euram was married to her?
Obviously he wasn't attracted,unless if Euram was a pedophile.

"
Antimatzist wrote:But this also depends on culture and in the case of Lym, it's even more complicated. For noble houses, it's perfectly normal to arrange the marriage of the offspring at an early age. In a normal scenario, Lym and Gizel would have been engaged before they marry years later. But because of what happens, they marry early.


But Lym wasn't supposed to be married to Euram or Gizel.....right?

BrucePrintscreen wrote:Also, in some cultures, children were not married early but their engagement came early, sometimes as early as birth. People only got the right to choose their spouse in modern times. In the past they would be engaged as part of a political or economical alliance between families, and their opinion did not matter. So they were engaged very early to seal that alliance and got actually married once they reached adulthood.



And what if a parent was like "marry whoever you want"?

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby sticky-runes » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:02 pm

There are a couple of English monarchs in history who married under the age of 10. I think it was deemed appropriate at the time, given their royal status, and the fact that the marriage may have been a political move to ensure peace between two different nations. I think most people can understand that a marriage is a sure way to ensure an alliance and shared wealth with a powerful family. It wasn't done for love.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Antimatzist » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:56 pm

But Lym wasn't supposed to be married to Euram or Gizel.....right?

Gizel won the Sacred Games, of course he was supposed to eventually marry Lym. But it just happened earlier than everyone expected because of Gizel's demand for power.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby solarstar » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:36 pm

It was strictly political. Salum was pushing for the Games all for the sake of regaining the power he lost and of course the greedy and corrupt Senate went along with it.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Sasarai10 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:59 pm

Antimatzist wrote:Gizel won the Sacred Games, of course he was supposed to eventually marry Lym. But it just happened earlier than everyone expected because of Gizel's demand for power.


Normally Belcoot would win.

But still a 30 year old man marrying a 10 year old girl just for political reasons?

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby wataru14 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:51 pm

Sasarai10 wrote:Normally Belcoot would win.


Possibly. We don't know how he would have fared against Zegai. Or Richard for that matter.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:30 pm

Sasarai10 wrote:
Antimatzist wrote:Gizel won the Sacred Games, of course he was supposed to eventually marry Lym. But it just happened earlier than everyone expected because of Gizel's demand for power.


Normally Belcoot would win.

But still a 30 year old man marrying a 10 year old girl just for political reasons?

As wataru said, we don't know for sure. Maybe Childerich would also have won in a fair duel, but Gizel just wanted to be safe.

And yes. Take a history book and read on political marriage.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:38 pm

sticky-runes wrote:There are a couple of English monarchs in history who married under the age of 10. I think it was deemed appropriate at the time, given their royal status, and the fact that the marriage may have been a political move to ensure peace between two different nations. I think most people can understand that a marriage is a sure way to ensure an alliance and shared wealth with a powerful family. It wasn't done for love.


Yes a few other royals accross Europe did the same. Actually the marriage was not consumated when celebrated, that was explicitly recorded sometimes. The marriage would be celebrated immediately for its effects in terms of alliance and inheritance but the consumation would be delayed for many years, if only because the spouses were sent back to their distant fiefdoms immediately after the ceremony.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:03 am

solarstar wrote:It was strictly political. Salum was pushing for the Games all for the sake of regaining the power he lost and of course the greedy and corrupt Senate went along with it.

No, it’s not strictly political. It depends on the perspective. A political marriage is basically a political move to gain an advantage or at least avoid a disadvantage. The sacred games, as the name “sacred” tells you, are an obligation based on tradition, the royal family has no control of who’s gonna win and gain influence. But the Barows and Godwins saw the games as a political tool of course.

I believe Richard is supposed to be overpowered gameplay-wise only, not story-wise. I don’t think he would’ve won. I think Zegai is supposed to be stronger than Belcoot (at that point), or at least he was seen as the biggest threat, so he was the first to be put out of action by guile. Drugging Belcoot makes it seem that Gizel didn’t have much confidence in Childerich’s power imo.
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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:56 am

If I was the prince I'd marry Zegai.

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Re: Was marrying a 10 year old girl appropriate in middle-ages?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:10 pm

How about Shoon? Seems to be a better choice if he was actually a competitor,and closer to Lym's age.


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