How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

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Sasarai10
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How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:02 am

Started playing Suikoden I again.

So how do you imagine things would be if Odessa was actually a SoD and she was just a member of your Army now?

I believe she'd pass the leadership to you anyway. You can figure it out from her line in Seika village "You've got eyes that draw people".

Also i believe Odessa had a secret crush on Tir as well. Her behavior around Tir seemed like she was crushing on him actually. If Kage didn't appear in Seika i believe we'd see more during this night scene.

What do you believe?

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:21 am

I think if Odessa had survived the Lenankamp base attack and stuck with the group, a lot of people would still look to her as the true leader instead of Tir. Not just Flik, but also people like Mose, Ronnie and Kessler. So Tir would have to try harder to prove himself. Makes me think of Suikoden 4 when Lino gets Elenor to pit him and Lazlo against each other so that people wouldn't keep looking to the king for leadership. Odessa might do something similar, like asking her brother to put Tir through some sort of challenge or task to prove his worth.

The meeting between Odessa and Mathiu would probably have been very tense as well.

If Odessa had been around during Flik's recruitment, she probably would have prevented him from forcing the attack on Scarleticia. But then, he might have gone ahead and done it behind her back, to prove that he's more worthy of her respect than Tir. His jealousy towards Tir would probably be more of a problem with Odessa still around, and he might even have to have been punished at some point.

Teo and the generals would probably see Odessa as some sort of witch who has seduced Tir away from the empire, which would be ironic, because they are all serving an emperor who has become enamored with a witch.

Kasumi would be jealous of Odessa getting to work closely with Tir a lot of the time.

If Odessa found out Sanchez was a traitor, she'd probably shoot him herself.

Alen, Grenseal and Sonya would probably aim a lot of hatred towards her.

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:26 am

sticky-runes wrote:I think if Odessa had survived the Lenankamp base attack and stuck with the group, a lot of people would still look to her as the true leader instead of Tir. Not just Flik, but also people like Mose, Ronnie and Kessler. So Tir would have to try harder to prove himself. Makes me think of Suikoden 4 when Lino gets Elenor to pit him and Lazlo against each other so that people wouldn't keep looking to the king for leadership. Odessa might do something similar, like asking her brother to put Tir through some sort of challenge or task to prove his worth.


Maybe yes. Maybe after some point during the game there would be a duel between you and Odessa...but there's a problem here.

How a duel would be possible since Odessa's using a L-range weapon? Unless if we made it a solo regular battle between Tir and Odessa...then ok.

sticky-runes wrote:
If Odessa had been around during Flik's recruitment, she probably would have prevented him from forcing the attack on Scarleticia. But then, he might have gone ahead and done it behind her back, to prove that he's more worthy of her respect than Tir. His jealousy towards Tir would probably be more of a problem with Odessa still around, and he might even have to have been punished at some point.



Actually it's already known and verified as well, Flik had a crush on Odessa. I believe he'd go as far as joining the Empire instead and fight against you to prove his worth to Odessa if she was still alive.

sticky-runes wrote:
Teo and the generals would probably see Odessa as some sort of witch who has seduced Tir away from the empire, which would be ironic, because they are all serving an emperor who has become enamored with a witch.

Kasumi would be jealous of Odessa getting to work closely with Tir a lot of the time.

If Odessa found out Sanchez was a traitor, she'd probably shoot him herself.

Alen, Grenseal and Sonya would probably aim a lot of hatred towards her.



- I dunno about other generals but i believe Teo might try to kill her since he'd thought she's being a bad influence to his son.
- Indeed. Suikoden would be more than a love story in this case with Tir,Flik,Kasumi and Odessa around. :P
- Really? I don't think she was that kind of woman. Seems to be smart enough (remember her death scene?), so she'd follow Mathiu's plan by pretending he isn't a traitor.
- Alen Grenseal were just loyal Teo's servants...they'd just follow his wishes. And about Sonya i believe she'd hate her only if she actually killed Teo. After all that was the only reason she was hating Tir,cause she thought he was the one who killed him.

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:30 pm

Sasarai10 wrote:
sticky-runes wrote:I think if Odessa had survived the Lenankamp base attack and stuck with the group, a lot of people would still look to her as the true leader instead of Tir. Not just Flik, but also people like Mose, Ronnie and Kessler. So Tir would have to try harder to prove himself. Makes me think of Suikoden 4 when Lino gets Elenor to pit him and Lazlo against each other so that people wouldn't keep looking to the king for leadership. Odessa might do something similar, like asking her brother to put Tir through some sort of challenge or task to prove his worth.


Maybe yes. Maybe after some point during the game there would be a duel between you and Odessa...but there's a problem here.

How a duel would be possible since Odessa's using a L-range weapon? Unless if we made it a solo regular battle between Tir and Odessa...then ok.


That's why I said "some sort of challenge" not "that exact same challenge." Doesn't necessarily have to be a contest of strength and skill in combat. Shu tested Riou and Apple by telling them to fetch a coin from the river, for example.

Sasarai10 wrote:
sticky-runes wrote:
If Odessa had been around during Flik's recruitment, she probably would have prevented him from forcing the attack on Scarleticia. But then, he might have gone ahead and done it behind her back, to prove that he's more worthy of her respect than Tir. His jealousy towards Tir would probably be more of a problem with Odessa still around, and he might even have to have been punished at some point.



Actually it's already known and verified as well, Flik had a crush on Odessa. I believe he'd go as far as joining the Empire instead and fight against you to prove his worth to Odessa if she was still alive.


It was more than a simple crush. Flik outright says that Odessa was his lover during one of the night scenes in S2.

Flik would never betray the Liberation Army, but I reckon he would still do something reckless to prove himself a better commander than Tir. Especially if Odessa were still around and it seemed like she was respecting Tir more than Flik.

Sasarai10 wrote:

- I dunno about other generals but i believe Teo might try to kill her since he'd thought she's being a bad influence to his son.
- Indeed. Suikoden would be more than a love story in this case with Tir,Flik,Kasumi and Odessa around. :P
- Really? I don't think she was that kind of woman. Seems to be smart enough (remember her death scene?), so she'd follow Mathiu's plan by pretending he isn't a traitor.
- Alen Grenseal were just loyal Teo's servants...they'd just follow his wishes. And about Sonya i believe she'd hate her only if she actually killed Teo. After all that was the only reason she was hating Tir,cause she thought he was the one who killed him.


Odessa is essentially the person who founded the liberation movement, so I reckon the Imperials would blame her for a lot that has gone wrong in their empire. The generals did come around to trusting Tir, the son of one of their own, after some hardships that eventually opened their eyes to how corrupt their empire was. I think it would be a lot harder for them to fight alongside the woman who started waging war against them in the first place.

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:46 pm

sticky-runes wrote:
It was more than a simple crush. Flik outright says that Odessa was his lover during one of the night scenes in S2.

Flik would never betray the Liberation Army, but I reckon he would still do something reckless to prove himself a better commander than Tir. Especially if Odessa were still around and it seemed like she was respecting Tir more than Flik.




Pretty hard to believe S1's Flik is the same guy with the one in S2. In S1 he seems to be very cocky and very immature as well. In S2 is a very collected person and much calmer.

So when you say punieshed. How do you mean exactly?

sticky-runes wrote:
Odessa is essentially the person who founded the liberation movement, so I reckon the Imperials would blame her for a lot that has gone wrong in their empire. The generals did come around to trusting Tir, the son of one of their own, after some hardships that eventually opened their eyes to how corrupt their empire was. I think it would be a lot harder for them to fight alongside the woman who started waging war against them in the first place.



If they realised Empire was corrupted...why not then? They are fighting for the same goal now so.....

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:17 am

Sasarai10 wrote:
Pretty hard to believe S1's Flik is the same guy with the one in S2. In S1 he seems to be very cocky and very immature as well. In S2 is a very collected person and much calmer.

So when you say punieshed. How do you mean exactly?


I don't think it would be something too harsh, maybe just locking Flik in the cell for a couple of days to dwell on his insubordination.

Part of the reason Flik changes so much is because Odessa's death has such a big impact on him. If we're imagining a scenario where Odessa doesn't die, then that change would not happen. He'd probably carry on being cocky and reckless.

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:40 am

I would have loved to play a Suikoden 1 with Odessa surviving. She is one of my favourite characters in S1 (come on, a strong rebellious girl? Please marry me). She is widely overrated amongst fans. She is worth a thousand sierras.

A S1 with Odessa surviving means that Tir would only become the leader the same way that Riou became leader in S2: he is neutral enough to unite several factions. Therefore, it would have been a very different story.

If it hadn't been for Odessa's death, there would have been no Mathius. Odessa did not need Tir to go to patch up things with her brother. If she had survived, she would never have tried to reconnect with him. Perhaps she would have tried to bring on Leon instead. He would have been the main strategist in the start.

Tir would only have become leader when Odessa's limits would have appeared. Why did the rebellion stagnated until Tir replaced her? Because she never expanded it beyond her core group. She knew it, she said it in Seika, he is better than her at uniting various people. THerefore, Tir would have become leader when someone (probably Leon) would have suggested he took over in order to bring along more factions. Starting with Lepant, but also with Warrior's village and Dragon Knights much earlier, elves, Warren would also have been brought in earlier (he never was close to Odessa apparently, so perhaps Tir would have been better), the game would certainly have been played backwards: starting with Kasim's and then Millich's territory before Kwanda.

As for the love triangle - Gremio would not have been the dying one in this version of the story, Flik would have had. Jealous of you and eager to reconquer Odessa in his immature and harsh ways, he would have rushed to Milich's domain early and die there, and hopefully got resurrected by Leknaat to give him a chance to mature and patch up with you and Odessa.

Further in the love triangle, Kasumi's jealousy may have meant that she turned against you and brought her ninja friends along in switching alliances out of resentment for Odessa stealing away her love. Feeding bullshit back to the guys at Rokkaku to have them siding with the Empire against you. And in the end regretting it and crying it out and reconciling in a moving scene.

I do not think Teo would have been more harsh on Odessa, he knew his son to be clever enough to do his own choices, he said it before dying. And he is a professional with no personal feelings against Odessa, he would have respected his enemy for sure.

Sanchez would have been seen through earlier, if not by Odessa, at least by Leon, who is more cunning that Mathiu (I can't believe Mathiu never got who was the traitor). This would have been giving another story for Sanchez as well.

Wow, good topic guys :D

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Wolkendrache » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:06 am

Sasarai10 wrote:Maybe yes. Maybe after some point during the game there would be a duel between you and Odessa...but there's a problem here.

I don’t think there would be a direct duel, but perhaps something like in the novel. They split their forces in two, one group led by Odessa, the other one by Tir. Whoever succeeds faster (for example at killing Kraze) will become leader. Tir would win for one of these reasons: 1. The power of his rune, 2. Odessa lets him win, 3. He wins due to a scheme by Mathiu. Both Mathiu and Odessa are smart enough to realize that Tir’s better at uniting people.
sticky-runes wrote:Odessa is essentially the person who founded the liberation movement, so I reckon the Imperials would blame her for a lot that has gone wrong in their empire. The generals did come around to trusting Tir, the son of one of their own, after some hardships that eventually opened their eyes to how corrupt their empire was. I think it would be a lot harder for them to fight alongside the woman who started waging war against them in the first place.

Absolutely. That’s why Tir is the better leader for the liberation army even though Odessa has much more experience.
BrucePrintscreen wrote:She is widely overrated amongst fans.

I guess you meant underrated. I think she’s widely respected amongst fans.
BrucePrintscreen wrote:Further in the love triangle, Kasumi's jealousy may have meant that she turned against you and brought her ninja friends along in switching alliances out of resentment for Odessa stealing away her love. Feeding bullshit back to the guys at Rokkaku to have them siding with the Empire against you. And in the end regretting it and crying it out and reconciling in a moving scene.

I doubt that. Sure, she’s quite emotional for a ninja, but she’s still too “ninja” to put emotions over duties/orders, and too kind-hearted to put personal revenge over justice.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:59 pm

Yes I meant underrated :D I'm sure she is appreciated but you don't see much love expressed for her in contrast with other characters. She deserves more attention than she gets.

I see your point about Kasumi... You're right actually I was thinking too forward. But then what would be her reaction?

Perhaps Odessa would not survive the final stage of the game, a bit like Mathiu in the original S1 - and actually, just like the original "Odessa" character in the Shui Hu Zhuan novel, Chao Gai, he remains in charge until the very last part of the book when he finally succumbs and is replaced by star #1 Song Jiang aka Tir.

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Wolkendrache » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:07 pm

Yeah, I wish she would have lived longer in the game to make her death more tragic and her character unforgettable to any player, similar to Chao Gai. To be honest, when I first played the game she was just the girl that was replaced by the hero. The game should have introduced her a bit more, but since it didn’t, the makers owe us something. For example a tactics game that tells us about the early days of the Liberation Army with Odessa as one of the main characters… :wink:
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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:20 pm

A lot of Odessas story is hidden from us and not mentioned in the game. I mean, you don't actually find out why she is waging war against the empire, she just comes across as some nice chick trying to stick up for people who have been wronged by them. That's probably why fans don't talk about her much. That and the fact she is not a permanent member so players don't get to use her to fight through the final dungeon and kill the boss. So yeah, having a tactics style game that gives us those opportunities to become reacquainted with Odessa and find out why she is supposed to be so special would be nice ;)

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:39 am

Also keep in mind according to Soul Eater Rune...Odessa was as important as Gremio,Teo and Ted to Tir.

Otherwise why she's appearing in this sequence in Seek Valley?

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Celes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:16 am

Simply do not end the mission to Sarady. instead, enjoy the whole Gregminster area. Build some levels, kill bandits on Mt. Seifu, farm water and earth rune pieces and relax in Gradys empty mansion. Just don't let her die! It is all up to you, so Odessa can live forever!

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:43 am

Odessa doesn't appear in seek valley she appears with the other victims right at the end when the soul eater rejects windy.

I think the reason she becomes so important to tir is because she gives him the opportunity to take control of his own destiny - she helps him realise he doesn't have to be teo's little boy any more and serve the empire, he can become his own man. I've met people who have made me feel that way before, that I can achieve things and make a difference, and I have felt strong feelings towards them because of it. So I imagine they probably would become victims of a soul sucking entity that claims the souls of people who have had a profound effect on me :p

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Re: How do you imagine Suikoden I if Odessa was still alive throught the story?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:56 am

Celes wrote:Simply do not end the mission to Sarady. instead, enjoy the whole Gregminster area. Build some levels, kill bandits on Mt. Seifu, farm water and earth rune pieces and relax in Gradys empty mansion. Just don't let her die! It is all up to you, so Odessa can live forever!


isn't it possible to keep her in your party via some glitch then?


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