Only nobles have surnames?

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
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Pen
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Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Pen » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:52 pm

I am playing Suikogaiden 1, and something got my attention:

At Muse, when you meet Templeton, if you tell him Nash complete name, he will get surprised that he actually have a surname, and ask if he is a nobleman or something.

So, I started think in the possibility that only noble people have surnames, and this idea started to make sense to me, sense the majority of people we see in the games who have surnames (the McDohl family, the Silverberg family, the Falenas family, etc) are either nobles or decent from noble families.

It's this true for all the world? Or it's a Harmonian thing only?

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:12 am

Not necessarily nobles, but people of high rank have surnames. Think Georg Prime or all of the 5 Generals in the Scarlet Moon Empire.

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Pen » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:33 am

Oh, so this indeed exist in a global fashion? Interresting, I never noticed that in all these years, but right now makes a lot of sense.

Always learning something new! :D

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:08 am

It's entirely possible the other characters have family names too but because they are not famous their name is never uttered.

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:36 am

Seems some characters are so noble or high-ranked that their given names are simply omitted: Reinbach, Müller, Granmeyer, Kessler, Sanchez, etc.
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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Pen » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:55 am

If all characters had surnames, even if hidden, I think Templeton reaction wouldn't be that. I mean, if surnames were common on Suikoden Universe, Templeton won't be surprised by Nash having one. Right?

This is why I am asking if this is case. His reaction point out for surnames being really, really rare, and only a privilege of some people.

I remember that there was a place on real life, at medieval times, that only nobles and high ranking soldiers had surnames.

I believe was Japan? Right?

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:39 am

everybody has a surname ofcourse but they're not mentioned.
Now that you mention it....was "Maximillian" a surname actually? If i remember well Fred from S3 said his name was "Fred Maximillian". I might be wrong though

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:01 am

Is it ever explained why Freed has a full name? They even added the Y for when he's in your party and plenty of other full named characters don't have the initial or surname added. Was he elevated to a certain status for his loyalty to Granmeyer or something? Or is it a Japanese culture thing that I don't know about?

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Pyriel » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:07 am

According to Konami's Suikoden Encyclopedia, different countries and races have different rules about surnames, but generally only nobility or otherwise notable families have them.

Edit: viewtopic.php?p=90874#p90874

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:24 am

sticky-runes wrote:Is it ever explained why Freed has a full name? They even added the Y for when he's in your party and plenty of other full named characters don't have the initial or surname added. Was he elevated to a certain status for his loyalty to Granmeyer or something? Or is it a Japanese culture thing that I don't know about?


Maybe he was a noble i think.
Also i've noticed Solon Jhee is often referred with his full name,and when Luca's going to execute him he's referred just as "Solon"

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:45 am

What did Percival do to be punished with the last name "young lady"???
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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Pen » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:59 am

Here the dialog that catch my attention:

Image

What Nash said later is interesting as well, that surnames are based on Social Position.

Maybe this is a Harmonian thing only, since Templeton reconized Nash by his accent as being a Harmonian. Nash is a First-Class Citizen (or was) after all.

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:24 am

Templeton should have become the P.I. in Suikoden 3, he seems better at flushing out info than Kidd.

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:19 am

sticky-runes wrote:Templeton should have become the P.I. in Suikoden 3, he seems better at flushing out info than Kidd.

He's really good. He even notices Nash's Harmonian accent!
Sasarai10 wrote:everybody has a surname ofcourse but they're not mentioned.
Now that you mention it....was "Maximillian" a surname actually? If i remember well Fred from S3 said his name was "Fred Maximillian". I might be wrong though

No and this is very much like real European history. And most surnames just arouse because of the people's job or noticablefeatures. This WIkipedia on Roman nomenclature (which might be the first European civilization to use surnames? Maybe with the exception of Nordic people whose surnames consisted of their father's name with an added "-son") shows how such a system evolves over time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_conventions

sticky-runes wrote:Is it ever explained why Freed has a full name? They even added the Y for when he's in your party and plenty of other full named characters don't have the initial or surname added. Was he elevated to a certain status for his loyalty to Granmeyer or something? Or is it a Japanese culture thing that I don't know about?
That's a good question, but I think it might be because of merits in the war against the Scarlet Moon Empire. But that's just an assumption.

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Re: Only nobles have surnames?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:50 am

sticky-runes wrote:Templeton should have become the P.I. in Suikoden 3, he seems better at flushing out info than Kidd.


A 12 yo boy as a PI??? One of the biggest out-of-sync things in Suikoden,like Moroon's electric guitar and leather jacket :|


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