Timeline Questions - S IV, Tactics, and the RoP (spoilers)

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
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wataru14
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Timeline Questions - S IV, Tactics, and the RoP (spoilers)

Postby wataru14 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:10 pm

While playing Tactics something about the chronology of the game doesn't add up. I'm concerned about when the events of each game take place and who hold the Rune of Punishment at the time. NOTE: This is extremely long.

Here is the chronology and the parts I don't understand (all dates are based off this site's Timeline):

Year 292 - The Obel Royal Entourage is attacked. The Queen of Obel is in possession of the RoP. How she got it is unknown (it is possible she was the one who awakened it from the Obel Ruins, or got it from the person who awakened it, but we do not know for sure). Queen of Obel dies and the RoP passes on to an unknown person.

Year 299 - The Human Hunting Incident occurs and Graham Cray's village is destroyed. Cray's son is in possession of the RoP, which bonded to him after Cray cuts his arm off. It is unknown when Cray did this. The Rune's bearers in the years between the death of the Queen of Obel and when Graham Cray first got the Rune are unknown. Cray's son dies and the RoP passes to an unknown person.

Year 302 - The Island Liberation War begins. Just before this happens, Glenn gets the RoP from Brandeau. We do not know what event sparks the start of the war. The first aggressive action by Kooluk against the Island Nations is the attack on Razril after Lazlo acquires the RoP from Glenn (Cray has the Kooluk fleet attack Razril because he knows someone in the Gaien Knights got the RoP from Brandeau and he thinks it is still there). There is no mention of any open hostilities with Kooluk before that point in the game (just that Kooluk is Gaien's enemy nation and that Glenn had fought with Troy 7 years ago).

Year 307 - The Island Liberation War ends with the destruction of Fort El-Eal and the Giant Tree. An armistice is signed between the Island Nations Federation and Kooluk. How this war took five years to complete, I have no idea.

Rikie says that her husband got the RoP "three years ago." That places it sometime between Year 299 and Year 304, depending on how early in the war she is recruited. This happens very early in the game, so I am assuming it is either in Year 302 or 303. Rikie says that her husband was at sea when he got the RoP, so it is unlikely he was present when Cray's village was destroyed. Why would a Na-Nal fisherman be so far inland in another country? So he probably did not get the RoP from Cray's son. It is unknown how many people were in between these two bearers. Rakgi's father probably inherited the RoP around the Year 300.

Now we add Suikoden Tactics.

At the beginning of the game Andarc says the events in the Razril back alley take place 7 years before the Island Liberation War. That places it in the Year 295. Snowe would be 7 years old (he was born in Year 288) in that scene and Lazlo would be 6 or 7 (Flare was born in Year 287 and Lazlo is younger than she is). Which fits just fine. Kyril seems to be slightly older than the two of them, though. He is old enough to wield an exotic weapon with a good deal of skill and is quite articulate, so it is unlikely he is younger than 9 or 10 Even if he is, he would not be any younger than Snowe and Lazlo. "Several years" go by, it is unknown how many, but Kyril is still a child when we catch up with him again. I would venture to say three or four years pass at the most. Kyril's voice has not yet changed and he is still child-height, so I would not place him as any older than 12 or 13.

He goes to Middleport, meets the pirates, encounters Steele (who now has the RoP), and goes to the Nest of Pirates. The Island Liberation War has not started, so it cannot be later than Year 302. Edgar, Steele, and Walter all die and the RoP passes to Brandeau, who has it when the Island Liberation War starts.

The Suikosource Timeline lists Walter and Steele's death in the Year 299 and Edgar's in the year 304. This is not possible since they all died on the same night. At any rate, after this event, three years pass before we catch up with Kyril again. The Island Liberation War is over and he is with Andarc and Seneca in Razril. This is where things get hairy.

Placing the Steele encounter in the Year 299 fits with Rikie's timeline. Her husband got the RoP in 299 or 300 and left the family when Rakgi was 4 or 5 years old (he was born in Year 295). He dies shortly after and eventually Steele get the RoP. The problem comes after that. Three years after Walter dies would be Year 302 or 303, which is the START of the Island Liberation War. Kyril and company begin their quest in earnest after the war ends in Year 307. There are four or five years that need to be accounted for somewhere.

Placing the Steele encounter in the Year 304 fits with the end of the Island Liberation War (since 3 years later is Year 307), but that means Steele has the RoP in the Year 304, and we know Brandeau had it in the Year 302 since the Kooluk invasion of Razril happens only a few days after he dies. That would also make Kyril around 18 or 19 when Walter died, and he is clearly not that old.

In order for the dates to match up in any meaningful way, either:

1) the Island Liberation War has to already be a year or two in when Suikoden IV starts (which is unlikely since no one in the Gaien Marine Knights mentions a war currently going on)
2) the War must be significantly shorter than 5 years in length
3) Andarc is an extremely unreliable narrator who has no idea how much time passes between events (most likely it being 8 years after Walter's death that Kyril continues his quest instead of the 3 Andarc says)
4) or Kyril has to have an extremely slow-moving puberty where he is still 4" tall and has a child's voice when everyone else would have reached full adulthood. If his aging was that slow, someone would have mentioned it.

Can anyone help clear this up? Where do the dates on the Timeline come from anyway?

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Re: Timeline Questions - S IV, Tactics, and the RoP (spoiler

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:27 am

You should try this timeline, it is more accurate (because it's purely based on publicatiosn - that stuff can be a mess at times on suikosource. Add to that that the puvlications themselves contradict each other)
http://theirstar.com/timeline/#note-13

It says the beginning of the War does not refer to the War that you see in IV. Maybe it starts with Kooluks invasion plans? This is basically the solution to your problem (together with the fact that different people worked on these games and thus it's inconsistent at times).

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Re: Timeline Questions - S IV, Tactics, and the RoP (spoiler

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:21 am

We do not know what event sparks the start of the war. The first aggressive action by Kooluk against the Island Nations is the attack on Razril after Lazlo acquires the RoP from Glenn (Cray has the Kooluk fleet attack Razril because he knows someone in the Gaien Knights got the RoP from Brandeau and he thinks it is still there). There is no mention of any open hostilities with Kooluk before that point in the game (just that Kooluk is Gaien's enemy nation and that Glenn had fought with Troy 7 years ago).


It is mentioned in one of the book volumes that Gaien made the first move against Kooluk because they knew about Fort El Eal being built on the shores of Kooluk and saw that as a threat (the start of Kooluk's expansion overseas), so Glenn lead the naval force against Kooluk and was repelled by Troy. This might cause some confusion with when the war actually started because we don't encounter any Kooluks in the game until after we get banished from Razril and the war between Kooluk and the Island Nations officially kicks off when Kooluk finish their giant rune cannon and use it to zap Illuya.

Rikie says that her husband got the RoP "three years ago." That places it sometime between Year 299 and Year 304, depending on how early in the war she is recruited. This happens very early in the game, so I am assuming it is either in Year 302 or 303. Rikie says that her husband was at sea when he got the RoP, so it is unlikely he was present when Cray's village was destroyed. Why would a Na-Nal fisherman be so far inland in another country? So he probably did not get the RoP from Cray's son. It is unknown how many people were in between these two bearers. Rakgi's father probably inherited the RoP around the Year 300.


We don't know every single person who ever held the ROP (after all, Lazlo never had any visions of Steele, he only ever seems to see people he knew personally or relatives of people he meets)
As far as I can see...

Queen of Obel has ROP first. Lino says this is 15 years before we destroy El Eal.
Queen of Obel dies and the ROP passes on to an unknown person (a surviving pirate or soldier perhaps)
The ROP continues it's journey from host to host and makes it as far as the borders of Scarlet Moon, where Cray and his son encounter it.
After Cray's mutilation and the death of son, it passes on to another unknown person/s and eventually ends up back in the Island Nations.
Then Rikie's husband got the ROP. Perhaps he found the rune bearer lost at sea or washed up on a beach and it passed onto him.
Then Steele posseses it. I think it is possible that Steele attacked Rikie's husband's fishing boat and Rikie's husband was killed in the attack and the ROP passed onto Steele.
Then we know that Steele is defeated by Brandeau and Edgar, and that the ROP passes on to Brandeau. And we know what happens from there.

Personally I'm more concerned about the order of events, not too bothered about the year numbers.

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Re: Timeline Questions - S IV, Tactics, and the RoP (spoilers)

Postby Virande » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:10 am

According to the trusted sources, here is the history of RoP's bearer

Begins with unknown numbers of people until in the hand of the man that buried in Obel Ruins.
~ 292 : Left behind at the Ruins until someone took it because no one guarding the Ruins
292 : Queen of Obel
292 ~ 299 : Unknown (several) people until Graham Cray cut off his left hand and the Runes moves to his son
299 : Graham Cray's Son
299 ~ 304 : Unknown (several) people until Rakgi's Father
304 ~ 305 : Maybe another (several) people until Steele
305 ~ 306 : Brandeau
306 : Glenn Cott
306 ~ Present? : Lazlo En Kuldes

Note: Island Liberation Wars begins in year 302, before S4 started in year 306. Just like S1 starts at Year 455 but the War starts at year 453.
Gren said about the battle with Troy 7 years ago, and that battle took in year 299, so it's pretty clear when actually S4 started.


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