Luca and his coup

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Wolkendrache
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Luca and his coup

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:47 pm

Luca is depicted as a bloodthirsty demon, full of hate and anger, and eventually he was defeated due to his rashness.

Now, the war starts with a false flag operation: a Highland unit killed their own Unicorn Brigade and put the blame on Jowston. The goal of these kind of operations is to justify a war and gain sufficient support for it. In this case, the scheme should furthermore weaken the authority of Agares by suggesting that this tragedy was made possible by the cease-fire treaty that Agares signed.

Was is really Luca who came up with that plan? He certainly doesn’t lack the necessary cruelty, but for its implementation, a certain level of pragmatism and patience is required, basically the opposite of insanity, bloodlust and rashness. Moreover, I wouldn’t say Luca is stupid, but characters like Leon and the Godwins are more convincing regarding this level of political acumen.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Sasarai10
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:44 am

Rowd didn't put on his hands on this plan? :?:

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bluemask
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby bluemask » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:42 am

We never know, Luca might be more intellectual than we have thought. Maybe his leisure was the killing but behind the scenes, he's some genius. Remember his appearance at the Unicorn Brigade at the beginning? There's no other credible person there who would have thought of the traitor scheme (Rowd was just following orders, I believe, at that point).

Or, Agares thought of the war from the beginning, despite being a lame king and Luca just followed the plan all along, planning to kill Agares later so he would be a powerful figure in an instant.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:08 am

I think Luca could have thought up the plan himself. We know how much he despised Agares, and I see him killing off a bunch of kids as not only an excuse to get the war started, but also a way of getting back at his dad. Kind of like: I suffered when I was a little boy because you were a coward, now lets see how the kingdom reacts when their children's hearts are ripped out as a result of your peace treaty.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:59 pm

You guys don't give enough credit to Luca, he is not without intellect. When Jowy steps forward with a plan, Luca is receptive. To me it is absolutely certain that this coup was Luca's invention.

Wolkendrache
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:56 pm

Every Suikoden leader I've seen has strategists for the schemes and generals for the battles, but Luca is an all-in-one full package.
I'm just thinking that the depiction of Luca as an out-of-control killer and the depiction (or suggestion) of the same as a cunning pragmatic politician are not very compatible. It's confusing me.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:52 pm

Perhaps it's Culgan and Seed who devised it?

I've been busy thinking about these two guys lately and I think they don't get the attention they deserve. Culgan and Seed are very well defined by their final words. THey had plans for Highland. They were a good team, aware of how they completed each other well. They were clearly affiliated with Luca (as opposed to old-bearded-man and his son being affiliated with Agares) and in fact they may very well have hoped of manipulating Luca all along.

My theory is: Culgan & Seed meet and associate when they realise they do a great partnership, and probably because however different their personalities may be, they share a common idea of the future of Highland. They devise the coup. They use Luca as a tool because they believe that, however brutal and strong he may be, his boiling blood is also a string to manipulate him. They decided to pledge allegeance to him and pretend to be serving his rise to power, while in fact they think they can use it until the moment will arise to eliminate him (typically by abandoning him alone in battle and let a score of enemies finishing him off). Then Jowy enters the scene and they see him as the perfect ally to carry on their plan (as illustrated by the moment when Culgan & Seed walk after him in the forest of Greenhill and clearly state that they never were completely on Luca's side).

I think this is the real story.

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Sasarai10
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:06 pm

What about Solon? Did he was against Luca's beliefs? We don't have much backstory about him...but there's a hint during his execution in Luca's camp,about Culgan & Seed that they don't like what he does by saying sth like "Ugh....."

poor Luca,it seems noone liked him both from Highland and State Army. :lol:

Only Yuber perhaps liked him,because of his desire to bring chaos

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bluemask
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby bluemask » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:32 pm

Sasarai10 wrote:What about Solon? Did he was against Luca's beliefs? We don't have much backstory about him...

I don't think Solon was on par with Luca's ideals. I can pretty much say he's a "trigger happy" by nature. The sole reason why he was executed, lack of strategy.

Maybe Luca had some anon advisor who isn't mentioned or something... hmm?

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sticky-runes
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:34 am

Maybe Luca found a copy of the "Man Hunting Incident" book and took inspiration from that :wink:

Wolkendrache
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:33 am

He rather found "The Grand Checkersboard" by Zbigniew Silverberg...
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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sticky-runes
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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:14 am

I don't think Culgan and Seed would condone the killing of their own youth soldiers as an excuse to start a war against the State. we never see them reacting to the Unicorn Brigade massacre, so we may never know how they felt about the incident, but when we do confront Culgan and Seed at the end, they criticize Riou for being just like Luca Blight - killing everything in his path. I don't think they'd say something like that if they were behind Luca's coup in the first place.

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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby Poet » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:26 am

Actually luca's coup wasn't brilliant or complicated,any general leading an army should be able to devise that.As to implementing,it's more of team work by luca's henchmen like rowd.Luca is not rash or insane,something we can see from the decision to poison agares instead of killing him straight.Luca is in fact brilliant since before he had a strategist he was able to quickly take over the east side of the states and conquer muse through insider's job.It was solon jhee's failure that gave the states army a chance to breathe at north window.

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Re: Luca and his coup

Postby Willster328 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 am

To those talking about his bloodthirstiness and hot-headedness, I would simply say to re-interpret exactly what happened. First off, this has been something Luca has been planning nearly his whole life. So to think that he lacks the patience for it is slightly unfounded, considering he had been building it up for so long.

Secondly, his "hot headedness" was only once the war was actually in full effect, for which he was confident enough to finally bring it down. If he truly wanted just to slaughter everyone, then the Unicorn Brigade massacre just wouldn't matter. He needed to justify his war somehow, and once he did, then it was no holds barred.

The other part of it is simply the pride aspect of him. Where he used his cunning and those around him to build himself up to power that was uncomparable. So when talking about sieging the City-States, they're only mere fledglings to him, so he didn't care about collateral damage.


I think it's entirely possible that he came up with the scheme, and one the war was underway he simply got addicted to the bloodlust and kept it going. Not to mention the Rune was in full effect at that point which would've screwed up his mentality further


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