The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

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FoggyNotion
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The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby FoggyNotion » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:09 pm

This is something I've never really been able to make sense of, as much as I've tried. Feel free to correct me if any of my observations/conclusions seem off.

My main question is: What did Jowy really think he was going to accomplish at that "peace conference" he held after Luca Blight's death? I understand that Jowy's basic philosophy is that Highland & the State can't coexist if there's ever going to be a long-standing peace, that there has to be one large, unified country. So I can understand why he wanted the State Army to surrender, but it seems like he went about it in about the worst way possible.

Jowy is basically asking for the State Army to offer a full, unconditional surrender in the wake of what was arguably their biggest victory up to that point, in killing Luca Blight. Let's say that hypothetically, Riou accepts this. If Riou accepted this, doesn't he begin to look less like the leader of the State side and more like Jowy's co-conspirator? It would be an easy enough case to make, considering that Riou is both Jowy's friend & an ex-Highlander himself. If Riou had accepted these terms, there's a good chance that the State would have looked at Riou as a sell-out and even a traitor, turned on him, and a lot of them probably would have continued fighting Highland for their own sovereignty & national identity. If Jowy had been more diplomatic & less self-righteous, he probably could have negotiated something more reasonable & gradual that would have had the same effect.

At the same time, Jowy shows a willingness to kill both Riou & Teresa on the spot if they don't agree to his terms. Remember what Luca Blight said before he died (and I'm paraphrasing), "You think that if you kill me you'll have peace, but the war is going to continue because my country is going to want to avenge me." If Jowy did manage to kill Riou and/or Teresa right there, it would have had a similar effect on the State side, they'd then be fighting Highland to avenge Riou and/or Teresa. Leon says that by sparing Riou and Teresa (for Pilika's sake) Jowy is prolonging the war, but by blowing up the negotiations the way he did, it seems inevitable that the war would have continued anyway, regardless of whether Riou & Teresa lived or died.

All in all, the whole thing just seemed like a huge blunder for both Jowy & Leon Silverberg.

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freshmetal
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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby freshmetal » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:31 pm

I think your observation is spot on. The unconditional surrender approach may not have been the most diplomatic method, but you have to remember that Highland was still at an advantage, despite losing Luca Blight. This was also Jowy's first move after becoming king. Maybe he and Leon wanted to see if they could end the war with as little effort possible. As for him willing to kill Riou, that's the nature of the true rune. The two are compelled to fight to the death.
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FoggyNotion
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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby FoggyNotion » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:49 am

freshmetal wrote:I think your observation is spot on. The unconditional surrender approach may not have been the most diplomatic method, but you have to remember that Highland was still at an advantage, despite losing Luca Blight. This was also Jowy's first move after becoming king. Maybe he and Leon wanted to see if they could end the war with as little effort possible. As for him willing to kill Riou, that's the nature of the true rune. The two are compelled to fight to the death.


Very good points, thanks for responding. I hadn't really considered this, but you're right, this was Jowy's first big move since taking the throne, I guess his handling of the negotiations could even be considered something of a rookie mistake (it just seems like he didn't think the whole thing through). Maybe the better question I could have asked would have been "What kind of advice was Leon giving Jowy?" as opposed to what Jowy was thinking. Leon, theoretically, would not be influenced by any runes or any personal sentiments like Jowy was, so he would be able to offer the most pragmatic advice. Still, I guess just because Leon knows how to win wars doesn't mean that he knows anything about diplomacy & keeping the peace.

Another possibility: maybe Jowy/Leon didn't expect instant peace but wanted to split the State side to weaken them and make them easier to defeat. Maybe Jowy thought that Riou would be naive enough to accept his terms, which would remove his friends Riou & Nanami from the fighting, at least, and would probably create a split between people on the State side who weren't thrilled with the arrangement but just wanted to move on from the war and a smaller group that still wanted to fight.

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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby freshmetal » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Leon definitely didn't expect Riou to surrender peacefully. After all, Highland soldiers had Riou surrounded in the hall, so the plan was clearly to force a surrender. It may have worked if Shu didn't see through Leon's trap and send backup. I don't think Jowy or Leon are naive enough to expect Riou to simply surrender just because his friend asked him to.
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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby FoggyNotion » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:21 pm

That's true. Jowy & Leon may have made the mistake of springing the trap too early, bringing out the threat of violence before they had really discussed anything, but in the end it probably wouldn't have mattered since Shu already had Viktor & Pilika in position. I guess all of them were in a tough spot politically. The more I think about it the more I realize that there were no ideal solutions, no easy answers, even it could have been handled better by certain people at certain points.

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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:57 pm

The way real-life politics could actually be.
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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby freshmetal » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:06 am

FoggyNotion wrote:The more I think about it the more I realize that there were no ideal solutions, no easy answers, even it could have been handled better by certain people at certain points.


That's the nature of war unfortunately. If there were easy answers and ideal solutions, wars wouldn't happen, whether in the fictional setting of a game or in the real world.

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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby Jeremiah Ecks » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:19 pm

I said on another post, my whole view of Jowy is that he doesn't really want to win. His heart is in unifying the nation but he has a mix of the Rune messing with his mind, the political aspirations of advisors such as Seed, Culgan and Han Cunningham, and the fact that he is, actually, a Highlander. Wouldn't he rather the two counties united under a Highland banner as opposed to a Dunan one? But I don't think Jowy believes they can do it. Not really. Nor is his heart in it - he needed to depose Luca, but that left a vacuum that he fills by default.

The point of each game really is, if the main bad guys had simply amassed a big enough army to temporarily quash the rebels, game over, because they knew where the Liberation Army's are. Toran should be smashed to cinders, but Barbarossa's heart isn't in it any more. And I think it's the same for Jowy. He doesn't want to win. He wants unification, and he wants to make sure the Highland race stay existent with their own culture and norms, but beyond that? He isn't a tyrant like Luca.

So about the Peace Conference. a) it's buying time, so he and Leon can figure out the next step, b) if he can actually lure Riou away, then he can bring an end to the war quicker - sure it's unlikely, so they have to place a trap to attempt to assure it, but if it does happen, bonus. c) The war is killing people and I'm not sure Jowy is thinking straight at all at this point in the war. He attempts to take out Riou but I'm not sure he actually believes it will happen.

Leon's role? He doesn't care about Jowy, Highland or Dunan. He just wants the side he represents to win. If the conference doesn't initially work, then at least they can capture or kill Riou and it makes everything else easier. That's Leon's rationale. And with Leon whispering that in your ear, with Jowy's uncertainty and confusion, it makes sense. Maybe even Leon knows Jowy doesn't care about winning - but he does - and will manipulate the sucker to do it. Kinda like how Shu does to Riou. :?:

-Jeremiah Ecks,
who might not have explained that well or concisely.
"Everything is something, but nothing is everything."

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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby Jeremiah Ecks » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:30 pm

To clarify the original points about the conference;

If Riou and Teresa die, the 'game is up'. The other leaders are either ineffective as a 'front man', i.e. the Mayor of Two-River, or are strategists who need others' charisma to play their hands (i.e. Shu, Apple). Riou is charismatic and a great figurehead due to his connection with Genkaku. Teresa is well liked and a fantastic leader, plus she has been passionately fought for and much has been sacrificed to secure her. These two die, I think the effect on the Dunan Army won't be to galvanise them into revenge a la Highland, as Blight declares, but would be to deflate and exhaust them. Who is left when Riou and Teresa are gone anyway? Ridley?

Nobody else has their credentials, respect or charisma. Sure, Riou sucks as a leader, but as a figurehead puppet being utilised by Shu, he's got a lot of mileage, and same goes for Jowy with Leon. But if Shu and Leon don't have their puppets, they become useless. This is why Mathiu, Lucretcia, none of them became 'leaders'.

So in that sense, it makes good sense for Jowy and Leon to try and facilitate a scenario where Riou and / or Teresa could be lured over and / or die.

If Riou had accepted Jowy's offer, I doubt Jowy would have had the brains to have considered the possibility of accusation of plotting together. Leon wouldn't - he's an excellent strategist but he lacks any kind of social skills, and I'm not sure that kind of social / civil psychology would be his strong point. He's good at winning battles or manouevering through the political atmosphere; this might just be out of the realms of his thinking. Aaaaaaand, of course, Leon is not the best. He clearly isn't - Mathiu was better. And Leon looses the Dunan Unification War to a failed disciple and someone who isn't even a Silverberg. So factoring that in, I'd say not all of his decisions are water-tight anyway! This could just be a massive mistake for him.

-Jeremiah Ecks,
who isn't trying to be too harsh on Leon - Leon is his second favourite character, after all. :shock:
"Everything is something, but nothing is everything."

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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby FoggyNotion » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:10 pm

Jeremiah-

I think you make a really good point in bringing up Jowy's mental health here, he fits the description of someone with a "martyr complex," particularly toward the end of the story. You could even make the case that Jowy's martyr complex was what got him into this mess from the beginning, his insisting that Riou go ahead without him when they were trying to escape the Highland camp, which resulted in him getting captured and setting off that whole sequence of events.

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Re: The "Peace Conference": What was Jowy thinking?

Postby FoggyNotion » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:57 pm

Another thing I noticed recently: after Culgan delivers the message about the invitation to the Peace Conference, there's a discussion between some of the Allied leaders. Klaus seems very skeptical of the whole offer, Ridley suggests ignoring it completely and moving to take back Greenhill and Muse by force, others were more open to trying the negotiations, and it's Teresa that defers to Riou on the ultimate decision. It seems like there were already some cracks at that point, and the events going the way they did might have been the only thing that kept the Allied movement together and unified.


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