Stars of Destiny always win

[JanusThePaladin]

Leknaat, Luc, and Fukien all seem to know how the stars of destiny effect fate. While Leknaat, and Luc are mysterious characters who have their own agendas Fukien is really just a regular guy who happens to run a temple.

because of that I gotta think that the stars of destiny while not a widely known phenomenon can't be completly unknown to the world. Especially with the SoD involvment during Lazlo's war in Suikoden 4 143 years before suikoden 5.

Thats 108 people who know about the stars during that time not to mention the 216 people in Suikoden 5 and 1. All with vastly different backrounds Merchants, Generals, Bandits etc.

My point is with that many people experiencing this phenomenon shoulden't any enemy who finds out their dealing with the Stars of Destiny hang up their weapons and try to find a peaceful answer before they get slaughtered?

We may not know alot about the stars of destiny during the entire history of the Suikoden world but so far their 5-0 until a group of stars fails in a suikoden game i'm gonna think they can't be beaten.

This is your original post. the bolded part is your question. Since we're speaking pure mechanics of gameplay, there is no reason whatsoever for the villains to just give up when they find they are up against the 108 stars, as that would give us no story whatsoever. So the statement that the 108 stars always win because its a game does not help your argument, because the opposite can be said "the opposing army cannot give up because then we wouldn't have a game".

Regardless, i thought this argument was supposed to be ingame, not talking about the wider picture of how to cater to players.

[snakebite105]

It is spose to be storyline based but it workes on multiple levels.

[JanusThePaladin]

either way, it doesnt help your statement.

[snakebite105]

But no one has been able to hurt it either. So I still come out ahead.

[JanusThePaladin]

Um, no, everyone has answered your question. You simply choose to ignore their answers.

[Belcoot4]

Well since everyones splitting hairs I will too. In SV did they really win? This in more perspective towards Frey; he lost his entire family except his sister, he was forced to fight and kill his own aunt, until getting a headquarters he had to flock from city to city like a nomad, if you don't get all 108 Lyon dies which really leaves him with nothing, and if u do get 108 she lives and Georg leaves his only mentor and fatherly figure. Yes the war does end but does that count as a win considering everything you lost? Its like the Vietnamn War did the United States really win or was it just too much bloodshed and it needed to end. Or another example its like your house burning to the ground but your SII disc was the only thing left does that give you anymore relief then before.

[Vextor]

When I said fanfiction what i was refering to was any story about the series that wasen't made by the the people who make the series. I lump it all together.

You can't just lump it together when these are clearly separate things. Because an official manga is not created by fans, it can't be fan fiction. If you are trying to convince anybody, you'll have to use words in a way that everyone can understand; otherwise, nobody would know what you're talking about.

In the example of the Suikoden 3 manga, Konami did indeed edit the contents of the final product, so it is partly made by Konami as well. Note that I'm not talking about whether the manga is "canon" or not, because we're never quite sure with the inconsistencies. However, you can't lump official publications into "fan fiction" because it isn't created by fans, and whether it is "fiction" is also debatable.

Another point is that certain facts that only appear in the Suikoden novels and other short stories are included within the Genso Suikoden Encyclopedia as suikoden world facts, and these are all published by Konami themselves.

[snakebite105]

Well since everyones splitting hairs I will too. In SV did they really win? This in more perspective towards Frey; he lost his entire family except his sister, he was forced to fight and kill his own aunt, until getting a headquarters he had to flock from city to city like a nomad, if you don't get all 108 Lyon dies which really leaves him with nothing, and if u do get 108 she lives and Georg leaves his only mentor and fatherly figure. Yes the war does end but does that count as a win considering everything you lost? Its like the Vietnamn War did the United States really win or was it just too much bloodshed and it needed to end. Or another example its like your house burning to the ground but your SII disc was the only thing left does that give you anymore relief then before.

Theres always a moral delema for the hero. You could make the same argument for every other game.

Tir loses Odessa, Ted, Teo, Gremio
Riou loses Jowy and Nanami also Genkekku
Lazlo is betrayed by his best friend/brother and foster father
for S3 it just depends on who you want to apply it to.



What do you think is more true the book or the story? 1 or the other no explanation needed. There is enough different in the book outside of the optional choices for me to discount it.

[JanusThePaladin]

Actually, Riou loses Genkaku before the game happens, so that has no bearing. Further, if you get the "best" ending, Riou gets Nanami and Jowy back. So i'm gonna say you are wrong on this one.

Also, FYI, dilemma is defined as a difficult choice between 2 mutually appealing objects. So, dilemma isnt even the right word in this case, as Riou didnt choose between killing Odessa and killing Gremio.

English lesson for the day! Class dismissed!

[snakebite105]

Well none of the endings are canon. My point was that he experianced loss.

[JanusThePaladin]

So, since the tenkai experiences loss, he loses something, and there for does not win.

Heres the best argument against your theory here, and utterly irrefutable. Suikoden Tierkries is based solely around the fact that the 108 stars in the various dimensions continue to lose. Therefore, the 108 stars do not always win, as all those other dimensions have proven. You are wrong, end of discussion.

[snakebite105]

I don't even understand what your trying to get at. Besides you love this argument if only to prove me wrong even if I was absolutly right.

[Ancient Cheesecake]

What are you getting at?

Janus made a very good point and your response didn't say anything about it.

[JanusThePaladin]

How old are you? 12? Or are you really that paranoid?

I am one of the more active members in the theories and questions threads simply because i like to learn what other people have to say. It is not my fault that you are so frequently wrong, though utterly convinced you are right. I like a good argument as much as anyone else in this forum, and probably more than some do. However, your theory is incorrect, as i just stated, and if you dont understand that, then i shall try to find simpler terms than what i have already used:

You posted a theory. It was that all sides opposing the 108 stars of destiny should just give up, as they are going to lose no matter what. You asked why they did not. Your theory is flawed. The main flaw in your theory is that the 108 stars of destiny do not always win. This is evidenced by the game Suikoden Tierkries. In this game, the basis of the entire story is: the 108 stars of destiny (referred to as "starbearers") keep losing to a super-duper powered force in the different dimensions (referred to as the infinity). As the story in this game is that the 108 stars of destiny lose over and over again, your theory is wrong, and so are you.

self edited because it was just simply rude

[XIII]

Since Janus already said what I had in mind, even without Tierkreis as an example [as if the game never existed], you're merely stating a fact. There is no argument whatsoever in your first post and you asked a question that many have different answers.

I don't know if you guys are getting too caught up in this chat but just read what they have to say, try to make sense of it and don't be too hard headed. From the way this thread started it was about villains giving up because they fought against the 108 stars as a question to making the hero's loss as an individual, a point of 108 stars losing in a way.

Bottom line is yes the SoD always wins in the end, no the Villains would never give up just because they're facing the 108 stars. Unless you have arguments that actually proves why they should just give up in the perspective of the villains in game [i.e You're Jowy and you don't know about the 108 stars] then your arguments would be invalid. The villains have no clue about the 108 stars excluding Tierkreis.