True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
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Icegryphon
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True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Icegryphon »

So...True runes are supposed to freeze you in time essentially right? Meaning, you put a true rune on and you're that age till someone/something kills you, or until you relinquish the rune yes?

So how come Ted is a child when he gets the Soul Eater, but a teen 300 years later when he hooks up with Tir?

Are we to assume that he wandered as an eternal kid for 150ish years, then arrived on the Fog Ship as a kid, gave the rune to the captain and then was on the Fog Ship for 10 years before Lazlo showed up and he took the rune again?

Even if this is so, I doubt that they had that in mind when they made Suiko1...so is this just a total plot hole?
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by JanusThePaladin »

Its still up in the air. Apparently people do not grow OLD when they bear a true rune, however, Luc, Sasarai, and Ted all show signs of aging.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Lemmy Claypool »

True Runes are known to age their younger bearers to an "optimum" age (seems to be around 18-20 judging from the look of Ted, Luc and Sasarai) until stopping the ageing process completely, albeit at a slower pace than a non-bearer. This is likely so that said bearer is in the best possible shape.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by patapi »

True runes force their bearers to grow and stay in their prime years, so those who come across these runes as children would still have the chance to grow up physically.

Of course, people like the Masked Bishop had makeovers over the years too, so not everything is preserved.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Icegryphon »

If the runes have that much power...wouldn't they also be able to reverse the aging of older bearers? Like Ted's grandpa or Geddoe?
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by LanceHeart »

They can regenerate a person, but I don't think they can heal major wounds/changes.

Aging is pretty much considered the same as a major wound in that once it happens, you can't reverse it. You can only slow its progression or, in the case of True Runes, stop it. It's also why Geddoe sports some old wounds from his prior battles.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Jeremiah Ecks »

I wonder how old Barbarossa was when he came across the Sovereign Rune. Maybe he got older. Joshua Levenheit, too - he looks older than 'young'. Depends when they got their runes.

My theory is that some people age, some people don't, but all are granted immortality at least. Ted, however, is an exception - I think he did only age because of the time he spent on the Fog Ship. Otherwise, he looked pretty set at a certain age.

In Suiko I, I just think it was either a) a goof, or b) they hadn't worked out that True Runes granted immortality - I didn't know from just playing the English dub. So maybe they decided it after they made the game?

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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Icegryphon »

I don't think that Barbarossa was a bearer. I think that since the rune was on the sword, instead of on him, that he wasn't a bearer. Because wasn't the sovereign rune passed down from Rugner to Rugner? That would mean they didn't live forever.

Kind of a cool way of doing it isn't it? I mean...I want the power but I don't want the hassle of living forever. Sounds good to me.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by freshmetal »

Jeremiah Ecks wrote:I wonder how old Barbarossa was when he came across the Sovereign Rune. Maybe he got older. Joshua Levenheit, too - he looks older than 'young'. Depends when they got their runes.

My theory is that some people age, some people don't, but all are granted immortality at least. Ted, however, is an exception - I think he did only age because of the time he spent on the Fog Ship. Otherwise, he looked pretty set at a certain age.

In Suiko I, I just think it was either a) a goof, or b) they hadn't worked out that True Runes granted immortality - I didn't know from just playing the English dub. So maybe they decided it after they made the game?

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I don't believe that true runes allow bearers to age to a certain age. I think that once they get the rune, then they are physically frozen at that age. Ted only aged because of time spent without the Souleater (either while on the Fog Ship or at a different point.

As for Luc, I don't believe he aged between S1 to S3. You have to remember that the art styles change drastically between games. Luc's apparent aging could simply be different artists' interpretation of the character. IMO he didn't look older between S2 and S3, just different clothes.

Jeremiah is right about older looking characters with true runes. It depends on their age when they first got the rune. This would explain why characters like Joshua and Geddoe appear older. However, Barbarossa didn't actually possess the Sovereign Rune. Although he could use it's power, it was only on his sword, which had been passed down the Rugner family to each emperor.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Icegryphon »

/Agree with Freshmetal entirely.

I don't think they do anything to the user aside from giving them access to the rune's power and stop them from aging. I think that Ted probably held the Soul Eater for 150ish years, got on the Fog Ship, got rid of the Soul Eater for 10ish years, then Lazlo showed up, he got the Soul Eater back and had it for another 150ish years.

I think if we're going to assume that it accelerates aging that we have to also assume it can turn back time. So Joshua and Geddoe and such would have returned to the "peak age". I think it just freezes you as is.

And yes, as I said just before what Freshmetal said, Barbarossa didn't actually bear the rune.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by JanusThePaladin »

Luc and Sasarai definitely age. They were both born and then imbedded with the True Runes, or were born with the True Runes (i cant remember, someone correct me on this.)

So, unless Luc and Sasarai were born looking roughly 14, the definitely aged. Obviously their aging processed stopped, as Sasarai mentions to Dios in S3.

Also, there was always official back story that Ted lost the Souleater for a number of years, then found it. This was long before S4 came out.

At the time of S1, True Runes definitely granted immortality as you have to factor in that Yuber, Neclord, Windy, Leknaat, and Ted all bear True Runes and all lived over 300 years, and, with the exception of Ted and possibly Leknaat, all looked exactly the same 300 years later.

So arguments about retcons and mistakes are void. Obviously the games factored in these issues, and you guys simply forgot. The point remains, however, that Luc and Sasarai did indeed age. And that is the theory necessary to work with.
Icegryphon wrote:
I think if we're going to assume that it accelerates aging that we have to also assume it can turn back time. So Joshua and Geddoe and such would have returned to the "peak age". I think it just freezes you as is.
Also, I am curious as to your reasoning. Being able to accelerate the growth process and decelerate the growth process are 2 completely different things. Think about the majority of RPGs you play. You can level up your characters, even beyond the point they would normally be at in that portion of the game, but have you ever tried to delevel your characters? (With the notable of exception of Final Fantasy 8 which had a spell that allowed you to do so, however, this is a SPELL, and is not connected to the normal leveling process). Or if you dont count leveling, look at the normal aging process. Scientists have tried for years to find a way to reverse the aging process, and yet they have failed. However, it has been proven that stress, bad diet, and a modicum of other factors can increase the aging process. So again, i would ask your logic in assuming that because something is accelerated, it can also be reversed.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Icegryphon »

Why are you trying to compare true runes to a) game mechanics and b) real life? They're magical god-like entities that grant magical powers and immortality and you're trying to compare them to real-life doctors and stress? Or to the fact that you can't de-level in a game? You can't de-level in a game because they didn't code it in because there's absolutely no reason to.

If you can take the leap of faith needed for all fantasy genre elements and think that a magical rune can age someone to their "peak age" why not bring them down? It's called regeneration. If you can cast a healing spell to make someone no longer hurt, or bring them back from "unconsciousness" why not regenerate their old cells?

I don't recall the ins and outs of Sasarai and Luc getting their runes or how old they were so I can't comment on that. But Ted definitely aged only because he lost the Soul Eater and everyone who was beyond "peak age" didn't regenerate down to "peak age" so as far as what makes "logical sense" to me regarding true runes, as soon as you get one you cease going in either direction and stay put.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by freshmetal »

Maybe Luc and Sasarai didn't actually age. All we know about their pasts is that they're clones of Hikusaak created just to bear true runes. This isn't the kind of cloning that exists in the real world, but instead a magical "cloning". For all we know, when they were "born", they were already in their adult form, and not infants. Therefor, they don't age. That's just my theory.
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by JanusThePaladin »

Hmm yes, because 14 is adult form.

And to you Ice, you need logic for any argument. No argument, or hypothesis, can exist without logic, or some sort of backing. Your assertion that stopping the aging process is akin to reverting age is utter nonsense, as you have no logical reason, just a leap of faith. The games have shown us that people stop aging with True Runes. The game has not shown us ANY form of reversion. Therefore, your statement needs a logical backing, not that if you take one leap of faith you HAVE to take another.

So i ask you again to logically connect the 2. Good day to you!
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Re: True Runes, Soul Eater, and Ted

Post by Icegryphon »

You're not listening to my argument at all then.

I'm saying we haven't seen a true rune age someone. So therefore there is no logic backing that assumption. So what I said was if you can assume that it ages someone to "peak age" you can also assume it would revert them to "peak age".
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