hey this is my first topic creation and i feel that it should be under here. if so, just let me know where it should be so i know where to place topics correctly next time.
when i was 11 when suikoden 1 came out, i used to think the last boss was so cool. now that i'm more mature and like to analyze things such as significance to plot (which is the point i'm trying to use here) and whatnot, barbarossa's dragon seemed pretty useless. he seemed very ff9-necromancer like probably only because you see barbarossa 3 times within the game (beginning, futch, end). sure, he symbolized the last piece of the scarlet moon empire, but we really understand the only story about him at the end and i think that's a pretty crappy way to present a last boss's story. basically i feel he would've been fitting if we understood him a little bit more THROUGHOUT the game. i simply don't accept the fact that we was the leader of the SME and that he was the last important figure in the way of the liberation army. plus we don't even understand the sovereign rune's power at all until we see the golden hydra come into being and that's probably only a small portion of the rune's power. granted, this is the first game of the series and one of the first rpgs of the PS1 (correct me if i'm wrong) and i don't think konami's aim was to present a full blown amazing story but give way to a new style of rpgs so i'll give it some credit for being the base of an incredible series.
the beast rune i felt was rather unfitting too. we learn about it about 70% through the story (which is the case in some rpgs's i've played and i don't think it's that much of a problem) but again, we really don't understand it so much and i felt konami just threw in the idea of the beast rune being the last boss just because it's the only true rune not in possession of the unification army that the party has to go up against. we do witness its power in muse so we do have some sort of understanding but it was just basically abused by highland and to think that leon silverburg would be the one to summon it against riou+party as a 'last test' feels pretty unepic to me. i felt like luca or anyone with a true loyalty to highland would've been a much more fitting summoner of the beast rune's incarnation. iirc, leon is like albert in which they use their strategy to create the least amount of casualties possible no matter what side they're on so i don't feel a hint of true loyalty to highland coming from leon.
S3 is where i felt the last boss was extremely fitting. the main man behind the war was luc, in possession of the true wind rune, and actually uses its incarnation against the part as a last boss. we understand it more during luc's side-story and we get little subtle hints during the second flame champ's gameplay. i felt this story was presented best with little-to-no "wtf i don't get it and can't even being to speculate on it" moments. without luc's sidestory, i would not even consider the true wind rune a really good fitting last boss.
S4... hmm, at first i thought the giant tree was absolutely useless but i guess i spoiled it myself by reading a few forums here saying that tactics says the giant tree was summoned by warlock to be the energy source of rune cannons. i'd say that's really damn fitting only if we consider tactics' story into consideration. S4's story focus seems to be on the punishment rune and the army's wish to destroy kooluk. no where in S4 do we see a mention of the desire to rid the world of rune cannons and i guess the rune cannon's energy source. the only desire we see from the heroes is for kooluk to stop harassing the island nations. thanks to tactics, i give some credibility to the giant tree being the last boss.
S5. the sun rune is of course completely fitting since we hear about it from start to finish. the only thing i gotta say is, i kinda thought arshtat would be the last boss considering how crazy she gets from using the rune. marscal godwin was a decent enemy figure to summon the sun rune incarnation but i felt that he wasn't that much of a threat to the story. i actually feel gizel would've made a better summoner of the last boss since there's a lot more personality and story regarding him but his death at sol-falena couldn't have been more fitting. it felt like konami was forced to use the only remaining enemy figure to the prince's army in some ridiculously random area.
these are my opinion and i'm leaving this topic up for debate. i'd like to hear your opinions and what you think i should correct or at least consider in my way of thinking. i'm stubborn enough to not change my mind so easily but hey i like to read what others think.
fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
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lechaflan
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son_michael
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
Barbarosa's character was clear early on in the game...he wasn't the mastermind behind everything,he was a pawn to windy and we knew that before we fought him.lechaflan wrote:hey this is my first topic creation and i feel that it should be under here. if so, just let me know where it should be so i know where to place topics correctly next time.
when i was 11 when suikoden 1 came out, i used to think the last boss was so cool. now that i'm more mature and like to analyze things such as significance to plot (which is the point i'm trying to use here) and whatnot, barbarossa's dragon seemed pretty useless. he seemed very ff9-necromancer like probably only because you see barbarossa 3 times within the game (beginning, futch, end). sure, he symbolized the last piece of the scarlet moon empire, but we really understand the only story about him at the end and i think that's a pretty crappy way to present a last boss's story. basically i feel he would've been fitting if we understood him a little bit more THROUGHOUT the game. i simply don't accept the fact that we was the leader of the SME and that he was the last important figure in the way of the liberation army. plus we don't even understand the sovereign rune's power at all until we see the golden hydra come into being and that's probably only a small portion of the rune's power. granted, this is the first game of the series and one of the first rpgs of the PS1 (correct me if i'm wrong) and i don't think konami's aim was to present a full blown amazing story but give way to a new style of rpgs so i'll give it some credit for being the base of an incredible series.
His true rune's power was revealed,and thats the power of nullifying any magic or rune power used against him{which is why windy never really controlled him,he just made her think she did}
well the beast rune was explained towards the middle of the game,it needs sacrifices to unleash its power and it was given to highland by harmonia{which is actually a lie becaus ethe beast rune was imbeded in highlands castle}. Later on at the end we see the beast rune can summon golden wolves to attack the town.the beast rune i felt was rather unfitting too. we learn about it about 70% through the story (which is the case in some rpgs's i've played and i don't think it's that much of a problem) but again, we really don't understand it so much and i felt konami just threw in the idea of the beast rune being the last boss just because it's the only true rune not in possession of the unification army that the party has to go up against. we do witness its power in muse so we do have some sort of understanding but it was just basically abused by highland and to think that leon silverburg would be the one to summon it against riou+party as a 'last test' feels pretty unepic to me. i felt like luca or anyone with a true loyalty to highland would've been a much more fitting summoner of the beast rune's incarnation. iirc, leon is like albert in which they use their strategy to create the least amount of casualties possible no matter what side they're on so i don't feel a hint of true loyalty to highland coming from leon.
as for the summoner....Leon was a good choice,a tactition that can do more than just strategize was a welcomed change IMO and Luca's death was MUCH more meaningful dying as a berserker warrior with 100 arrows in him...then it would be if he just had the regular boss rune fight
I think even without Lucs story the True wind rune would have made sense as a boss considering its Lucs true rune and Luc tells us in the regular story about how the TWR tells him the worlds in a cage w/e and he wants to set everyone free,so it preety much makes senseS3 is where i felt the last boss was extremely fitting. the main man behind the war was luc, in possession of the true wind rune, and actually uses its incarnation against the part as a last boss. we understand it more during luc's side-story and we get little subtle hints during the second flame champ's gameplay. i felt this story was presented best with little-to-no "wtf i don't get it and can't even being to speculate on it" moments. without luc's sidestory, i would not even consider the true wind rune a really good fitting last boss.
yes Tactics completley fleshes out 4's boss,that tree is the only source of rune shells in the suiko world and it comes from another dimension,its nice to see in suikoden 5 that rune shells are super rareS4... hmm, at first i thought the giant tree was absolutely useless but i guess i spoiled it myself by reading a few forums here saying that tactics says the giant tree was summoned by warlock to be the energy source of rune cannons. i'd say that's really damn fitting only if we consider tactics' story into consideration. S4's story focus seems to be on the punishment rune and the army's wish to destroy kooluk. no where in S4 do we see a mention of the desire to rid the world of rune cannons and i guess the rune cannon's energy source. the only desire we see from the heroes is for kooluk to stop harassing the island nations. thanks to tactics, i give some credibility to the giant tree being the last boss.
I agree that without tactics that tree really had no explanation for being the boss fight
well I think Marscal Godwin and Lord Barrows were hyped throughout the game to be the evil masterminds and Gizel was actually just the grunt doing Marscals work....problem is since we hardly got any Marscal screentime we assumed gizel was the main bad guy but the story was never pointing in that direction.It all just comes down to the fact that Marscal Godwin didn't get enough screentime/character development to be a good final bossS5. the sun rune is of course completely fitting since we hear about it from start to finish. the only thing i gotta say is, i kinda thought arshtat would be the last boss considering how crazy she gets from using the rune. marscal godwin was a decent enemy figure to summon the sun rune incarnation but i felt that he wasn't that much of a threat to the story. i actually feel gizel would've made a better summoner of the last boss since there's a lot more personality and story regarding him but his death at sol-falena couldn't have been more fitting. it felt like konami was forced to use the only remaining enemy figure to the prince's army in some ridiculously random area.
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Quing
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
All right. The bosses...
Emperor Barbarossa- The reason that you don't think that Emperor Barbarossa was that great as a boss was that you don't understand Emperor Barbarossa's role. The fight with Barbarossa was there to show that while everyone assumed that Barbarossa was simply being controlled throughout the whole game, he actually had an idea of what was going on. He was by no means the mastermind, but because he knew what was going on, he was party to the corruption of the empire. Him fighting you at the end of the game was his way of showing that he recognized the suffering that his country had gone through and he was also willing to undergo that suffering to atone for his sins. By that point, Barbarossa knew that he was going to lose and fighting with you was his way of leaving his throne in a way that was as honorable as he could. The point of the boss fight, and of most of Suikoden in general, is that the enemies had honor too.
The Beast Rune- I agree that it was a most inappropriate boss. It just didn't play that big a role in the story. The point that they were trying to make was that Jowy didn't his country to fall into barbarism, and so even while he was trying to beat Riou he was also trying to contain a massively powerful weapon that, while guaranteeing victory would also compromise the country's morality, but I don't think that they pulled off that particular point very well.
Luc-as-wind rune- This was quite an appropriate boss. I think that it made Luc a more sympathetic character in this game by showing that Luc feels desperate and is going crazy having this rune so closely attached to him throughout his life.
The rune shell tree- I can see how this would mean nothing to someone who had not played Suikoden Tactics, but having played it myself, I consider the rune shell tree to be one of the better bosses. It shows that while the Kooluk have been expanding their empire, they have been doing it at the cost of their homeland. It makes the whole game seem sort of desperate. The enemy's most powerful weapon is also their great downfall.
Marscal Godwin- I think that Marscal makes for a wonderful boss. The fact that he is not outwardly the enemy for so much of the game makes it all the better. He is the ultimate mastermind, and every single move is closely calculated. He may be even more evil than his son, though it was satisfying to kill him, too. It also gives one the interesting realization that while you spend the game thinking that Gizel is the bad guy, you find out that he is merely a front for his whole family and faction and that corruption in Falena cannot be stopped merely by killing one person.
Emperor Barbarossa- The reason that you don't think that Emperor Barbarossa was that great as a boss was that you don't understand Emperor Barbarossa's role. The fight with Barbarossa was there to show that while everyone assumed that Barbarossa was simply being controlled throughout the whole game, he actually had an idea of what was going on. He was by no means the mastermind, but because he knew what was going on, he was party to the corruption of the empire. Him fighting you at the end of the game was his way of showing that he recognized the suffering that his country had gone through and he was also willing to undergo that suffering to atone for his sins. By that point, Barbarossa knew that he was going to lose and fighting with you was his way of leaving his throne in a way that was as honorable as he could. The point of the boss fight, and of most of Suikoden in general, is that the enemies had honor too.
The Beast Rune- I agree that it was a most inappropriate boss. It just didn't play that big a role in the story. The point that they were trying to make was that Jowy didn't his country to fall into barbarism, and so even while he was trying to beat Riou he was also trying to contain a massively powerful weapon that, while guaranteeing victory would also compromise the country's morality, but I don't think that they pulled off that particular point very well.
Luc-as-wind rune- This was quite an appropriate boss. I think that it made Luc a more sympathetic character in this game by showing that Luc feels desperate and is going crazy having this rune so closely attached to him throughout his life.
The rune shell tree- I can see how this would mean nothing to someone who had not played Suikoden Tactics, but having played it myself, I consider the rune shell tree to be one of the better bosses. It shows that while the Kooluk have been expanding their empire, they have been doing it at the cost of their homeland. It makes the whole game seem sort of desperate. The enemy's most powerful weapon is also their great downfall.
Marscal Godwin- I think that Marscal makes for a wonderful boss. The fact that he is not outwardly the enemy for so much of the game makes it all the better. He is the ultimate mastermind, and every single move is closely calculated. He may be even more evil than his son, though it was satisfying to kill him, too. It also gives one the interesting realization that while you spend the game thinking that Gizel is the bad guy, you find out that he is merely a front for his whole family and faction and that corruption in Falena cannot be stopped merely by killing one person.
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lechaflan
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
thanks guys. i actually might give barbarossa more credit. though i like both of your reasonings regarding windy, the one reason i didn't accept it as much is because we don't get enough screen time from him and his dialogue just doesn't convince me enough. the same goes for marscal which i'll get to later.
i still particularly feel that leon summoning the beast rune (which i seriously did not know was embedded INSIDE l'reounille [sorry don't remember how to spell it]) was quite awkward. but yea i just wanted to say that anyone with a TRUE sense of loyalty to highland like luca, seed, culgan would've made a finer summoner than a basically hired strategist who i believe was only looking for the least casualties. luca's death couldn't have been anymore fitting at whatever point we saw that in the game but i just threw luca's name in there just to give a strong highlander example. oh and i do agree that they didn't pull off the flow to the beast rune's fight that well.
i might've expressed my view on luc and the true wind rune a little wrong since i really can't remember much of that story. all i remembered is that he wanted to destroy the true wind rune, save humanity from fate i guess, and that you get to see his story after collecting 108 stars and beating the game.
i'm definitely playing tactics as soon as i get my dirty hands on them.
i agree with both of your conflicting ideas that marscal didn't get enough screen time to be a fitting boss and that him not getting enough screen time made him a fitting boss. i still stand with my point and agree more with son_michael on this. i would actually appreciate him more if there was more story regarding him with him giving even more dialogue/explanations to express his cause. i just feel they didn't pull of the not-enough-screen-time issue because it's not similarly pulled off the same the way (and i hate to bring in non-suikoden names to compare things but) that we learn of aizen sousuke's methods and plans in bleach (won't spoil anything). if you know about that, then i guess you can understand what i expected from marscal to be accepted as fitting for a last boss.
those are my four cents.
i still particularly feel that leon summoning the beast rune (which i seriously did not know was embedded INSIDE l'reounille [sorry don't remember how to spell it]) was quite awkward. but yea i just wanted to say that anyone with a TRUE sense of loyalty to highland like luca, seed, culgan would've made a finer summoner than a basically hired strategist who i believe was only looking for the least casualties. luca's death couldn't have been anymore fitting at whatever point we saw that in the game but i just threw luca's name in there just to give a strong highlander example. oh and i do agree that they didn't pull off the flow to the beast rune's fight that well.
i might've expressed my view on luc and the true wind rune a little wrong since i really can't remember much of that story. all i remembered is that he wanted to destroy the true wind rune, save humanity from fate i guess, and that you get to see his story after collecting 108 stars and beating the game.
i'm definitely playing tactics as soon as i get my dirty hands on them.
i agree with both of your conflicting ideas that marscal didn't get enough screen time to be a fitting boss and that him not getting enough screen time made him a fitting boss. i still stand with my point and agree more with son_michael on this. i would actually appreciate him more if there was more story regarding him with him giving even more dialogue/explanations to express his cause. i just feel they didn't pull of the not-enough-screen-time issue because it's not similarly pulled off the same the way (and i hate to bring in non-suikoden names to compare things but) that we learn of aizen sousuke's methods and plans in bleach (won't spoil anything). if you know about that, then i guess you can understand what i expected from marscal to be accepted as fitting for a last boss.
those are my four cents.
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JanusThePaladin
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
I always thought the reason Leon summoned the beast rune is that he knew that with Jowy's abdication of the throne no one would be able to hold the beast rune in check. When speaking with Jowy in one of the endings he intimates that he had been using the power of his rune to hold the beast rune back, but it was taking quite a toll on him. Without him there in the castle to hold it back, the beast rune, having met its requirements for sacrifice, would have been able to break free and feed off the people of highland. Leon's recognition of Riou's strength, and the strength of his army, allowed him to free the rune early, resting assured that its power would be defeated, and it would be held in check once more.
I may be wrong, but thats how it fit in for me. I'll think about the others later.
Oh and the Tree in S4. The plan when invading the Kooluk out post was to take control of the Rune Cannon, and to destroy the power behind the shells. Elenor specifically says it before the attack. So obviously thats what the Tree was, but thats nearly something said in passing, and if it werent for Tactics, it would have seemed utterly rediculous.
I may be wrong, but thats how it fit in for me. I'll think about the others later.
Oh and the Tree in S4. The plan when invading the Kooluk out post was to take control of the Rune Cannon, and to destroy the power behind the shells. Elenor specifically says it before the attack. So obviously thats what the Tree was, but thats nearly something said in passing, and if it werent for Tactics, it would have seemed utterly rediculous.
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Mio
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
some people are already chit chatting instead of complying to the thread first
fitting last boss for me would the one that would wrap up all the chaos in the story
the one that you need to defeat to rid the terror that has been going on throughout your adventure
in which after its defeat, you shall feel confident that tomorrow shall be a better day
SI - Windy the terror of the game went MIA, i don't think i should be fighting the puppet (Barbarossa) for my trophy. I'd prefer to be finishing off the puppeteer if you dont mind
SII - i am unclear as to what terror the True Beast Rune might wreak. Lack of information paled in comparison to Luca's extravagant terror.I knew i had to stop Luca. I was satisfied upon Luca's defeat, I felt that tomorrow would be better, i wasn't so sure about the True beast Rune though. Between Luca and the TBR? I'd say Luca showed more terror and was more fitting than TBR
SIII - ahh yes you thought after defeating Luc's true form that everything would be perfectly fine. but then it hits you, what is it that the Fire Bringers do to prevent the impending doom that Luc claimed? Nada, it is still a possibility that the world can be encaged or something. Doesn't actually inspire a fulfilled feeling of having saved the day and hoping for a better tomorrow eh?
SIV - yea at first you'd think what is this tree? why the hell am i fighting this? will everything return to normal if kill this tree? i went ahead and assumed it was yes. Only until Tactics that I have learned what great feat i just did. I destroyed the root of all Rune Cannons. Hurrah, no more war, what a better tomorrow. I also learned that Lazlo set to kill a tree without finding its true meaning, heck it could've been the Tree of Life. Anyway, nice save by tactics ^_^
SV - the sun rune indeed is a terror to be reckoned with. after seeing how it destroyed Lordlake and that old civilization, this rune is dangerous under wrong hands. You get to fight the rune and the person orchestrating terrors the entire time. well at least half of the duo, Gizel was not there. Anyway, completing this task is fulfilling indeed. With the terror back safe in the castle, the Prince have restored peace and order. Tomorrow shall be a better day indeed. Kudos, the best fitting final boss !!
fitting last boss for me would the one that would wrap up all the chaos in the story
the one that you need to defeat to rid the terror that has been going on throughout your adventure
in which after its defeat, you shall feel confident that tomorrow shall be a better day
SI - Windy the terror of the game went MIA, i don't think i should be fighting the puppet (Barbarossa) for my trophy. I'd prefer to be finishing off the puppeteer if you dont mind
SII - i am unclear as to what terror the True Beast Rune might wreak. Lack of information paled in comparison to Luca's extravagant terror.I knew i had to stop Luca. I was satisfied upon Luca's defeat, I felt that tomorrow would be better, i wasn't so sure about the True beast Rune though. Between Luca and the TBR? I'd say Luca showed more terror and was more fitting than TBR
SIII - ahh yes you thought after defeating Luc's true form that everything would be perfectly fine. but then it hits you, what is it that the Fire Bringers do to prevent the impending doom that Luc claimed? Nada, it is still a possibility that the world can be encaged or something. Doesn't actually inspire a fulfilled feeling of having saved the day and hoping for a better tomorrow eh?
SIV - yea at first you'd think what is this tree? why the hell am i fighting this? will everything return to normal if kill this tree? i went ahead and assumed it was yes. Only until Tactics that I have learned what great feat i just did. I destroyed the root of all Rune Cannons. Hurrah, no more war, what a better tomorrow. I also learned that Lazlo set to kill a tree without finding its true meaning, heck it could've been the Tree of Life. Anyway, nice save by tactics ^_^
SV - the sun rune indeed is a terror to be reckoned with. after seeing how it destroyed Lordlake and that old civilization, this rune is dangerous under wrong hands. You get to fight the rune and the person orchestrating terrors the entire time. well at least half of the duo, Gizel was not there. Anyway, completing this task is fulfilling indeed. With the terror back safe in the castle, the Prince have restored peace and order. Tomorrow shall be a better day indeed. Kudos, the best fitting final boss !!
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KFCrispy
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
Suikoden I - Windy definitely should have been a boss (2 bosses in a row would be kick ass.... first time playing you would have spent all your magic and items on Golden Hydra, then Windy comes out to blow you away), and along with Windy coming out Leknaat would have to appear to neutralize some of her power. THEN they should have done the whole drama stuff and jumped off....
Suikoden II - the problem with the Beast Rune was that it wasn't developed well enough. We saw it sorta messed up Muse (uhhh who actually died? the townspeople we saw earlier are all back when it's liberated), but we should have seen a better graphical representation, like Muse littered with carcasses, or the Beast Rune should have been fed on multiple places (how about.. Kyaro, punishment for raising "traitors"; and Highway Village to show Matilda who's boss). Luca destroyed more towns and lives than the Beast Rune throughout the game, which really undermined the significance of the Beast Rune.
However, as far as the actual story goes, you guys are right that Jowy was using his strength to seal the Beast Rune and Leon was there to make sure the rune could be defeated by Riou's team to prevent disaster.
Suikoden IV - the game's problem was its failure to tell the story properly. i am pretty sure the Giant Tree is mentioned when you meet Rikie and Rakgi in Obel, and maybe Warlock and Pablo mentioned it.... but it was simply not done correctly. The Giant Tree was what had to be destroyed to stop the rune cannon/ammo production, so it's definitely a good final boss.
Suikoden V - it's fine to fight the Sun Rune, but i think Marscal's ruse was ridiculous. he already knew he lost, but he wanted to see if the Prince can resist the desire to become corrupt or whatever from wielding the Sun Rune (but wait, Prince will never use the Sun Rune, his sister is the only one that might!). Marscal should have walked right up to Lymsleia with the Sun Rune and forced Prince to defend her, instead of waiting in the temple (what if nobody ever shows up because they decide not to follow the past traditions of using the runes.... just wait til he gets tired of melting the ice on the mountains and dies or leaves....).
Suikoden II - the problem with the Beast Rune was that it wasn't developed well enough. We saw it sorta messed up Muse (uhhh who actually died? the townspeople we saw earlier are all back when it's liberated), but we should have seen a better graphical representation, like Muse littered with carcasses, or the Beast Rune should have been fed on multiple places (how about.. Kyaro, punishment for raising "traitors"; and Highway Village to show Matilda who's boss). Luca destroyed more towns and lives than the Beast Rune throughout the game, which really undermined the significance of the Beast Rune.
However, as far as the actual story goes, you guys are right that Jowy was using his strength to seal the Beast Rune and Leon was there to make sure the rune could be defeated by Riou's team to prevent disaster.
Suikoden IV - the game's problem was its failure to tell the story properly. i am pretty sure the Giant Tree is mentioned when you meet Rikie and Rakgi in Obel, and maybe Warlock and Pablo mentioned it.... but it was simply not done correctly. The Giant Tree was what had to be destroyed to stop the rune cannon/ammo production, so it's definitely a good final boss.
Suikoden V - it's fine to fight the Sun Rune, but i think Marscal's ruse was ridiculous. he already knew he lost, but he wanted to see if the Prince can resist the desire to become corrupt or whatever from wielding the Sun Rune (but wait, Prince will never use the Sun Rune, his sister is the only one that might!). Marscal should have walked right up to Lymsleia with the Sun Rune and forced Prince to defend her, instead of waiting in the temple (what if nobody ever shows up because they decide not to follow the past traditions of using the runes.... just wait til he gets tired of melting the ice on the mountains and dies or leaves....).
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Lemmy Claypool
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
Actually, there is a slight decrease in the city's population once it's liberated. In particular, I believe the previous armourer was sacrificed, while her sister now tends to the shop.who actually died? the townspeople we saw earlier are all back when it's liberated
One thing I didn't particularly understand about the Hydra from the first game was just...why? Why a Hydra? What does that have to do with anything? It's a pretty random power for a rune to have I thought.
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Oppenheimer
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
The hydra in of itself was somewhat random. But, each head is immune to a different element. That represents Barbarosa's magic nullifying true rune being split up between the various heads.
I've said it before, but I think it's a shame that Barbarosa didn't duel you or at least fight you as his human self before transforming. He even has a sprite, as it's seen at the beginning of the battle.
I've said it before, but I think it's a shame that Barbarosa didn't duel you or at least fight you as his human self before transforming. He even has a sprite, as it's seen at the beginning of the battle.
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Lemmy Claypool
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
Yeah I guess that checks out. What with one of the rune's powers being a shield against magic, I suppose it makes some sense to have a transformation to represent different aspects of this.Oppenheimer wrote:The hydra in of itself was somewhat random. But, each head is immune to a different element. That represents Barbarosa's magic nullifying true rune being split up between the various heads.
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patapi
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
If the Sovereign Rune returns as an enemy boss, hopefully it'd take a form that blocks ALL magic, instead of dividing up the immunities among three separate heads. It'd at least give MDEF deficient characters like Georg Prime a chance to show off.
Still have nightmares how easy the Sun Rune KO'd Georg Prime with only a few magic spells.
Still have nightmares how easy the Sun Rune KO'd Georg Prime with only a few magic spells.
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Aculias
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Re: fitting last bosses from I-V? spoilers of course
There are alot of points if you really look deep into the story.
SUIKODEN 1) I think e everyone cleared the Barborasa's side.
SUIKODEN 2) With the beast rune.
I dont really think Jowy knew how hard it would really be.
It's a powerful rune when you got half of another true rune.
You are the king of Highland, & you have to use alot of energy to control the powerful beast rune.
I think Leon planned how to get Jowi to be trusted by Highland
Unfortunately he had to assassinate the mayor.
Once trusted I believe Leon helped Jowy to gain the trust of Luca, so he can destroy highland from the inside.
Leon is probally one of the smartest & fascinating Silvergurg out there as a strategist.
Luca had a horrible past, but he was corrupted by his own mind.
He wanted to destroy everything & he wanted to rule everything.
I think Leon knew this & he had to make everything perfect.
He likes to be on the winning side but enough was enough.
He helped the liberation army to dispose of Luca.
He planned alot of things as an equalist really.
He basically in his own way helped the liberation army to defeat the highlands.
To control the beast rune, you had to weaken it by fighting it I am guessing.
Leon used the Beast runes power so we can defeat it. To secure it after.
Thats my best guess.
Basically what Leon did had to be done so the beast rune can be tamed & he knew that.
Suikoden 3) Luca was arrogant but a smart guy.
He seen alot of things through the history of the wind rune that he probally should not of seen.
The destruction of everything.
I think he wanted to save everyone because he knew the future of what it held.
To give them a favor, he wanted to destroy his own rune.
How emotional Luc was & how he felt, I almost felt bad for him through the whole game with Sarah.
It's unfortunate he looked at it in a different aspect of solving the problem.Leknaat forgave both of them. They will never be remembered in Suikodens future.
I will do the rest later. I got to hit the grocery store
SUIKODEN 1) I think e everyone cleared the Barborasa's side.
SUIKODEN 2) With the beast rune.
I dont really think Jowy knew how hard it would really be.
It's a powerful rune when you got half of another true rune.
You are the king of Highland, & you have to use alot of energy to control the powerful beast rune.
I think Leon planned how to get Jowi to be trusted by Highland
Unfortunately he had to assassinate the mayor.
Once trusted I believe Leon helped Jowy to gain the trust of Luca, so he can destroy highland from the inside.
Leon is probally one of the smartest & fascinating Silvergurg out there as a strategist.
Luca had a horrible past, but he was corrupted by his own mind.
He wanted to destroy everything & he wanted to rule everything.
I think Leon knew this & he had to make everything perfect.
He likes to be on the winning side but enough was enough.
He helped the liberation army to dispose of Luca.
He planned alot of things as an equalist really.
He basically in his own way helped the liberation army to defeat the highlands.
To control the beast rune, you had to weaken it by fighting it I am guessing.
Leon used the Beast runes power so we can defeat it. To secure it after.
Thats my best guess.
Basically what Leon did had to be done so the beast rune can be tamed & he knew that.
Suikoden 3) Luca was arrogant but a smart guy.
He seen alot of things through the history of the wind rune that he probally should not of seen.
The destruction of everything.
I think he wanted to save everyone because he knew the future of what it held.
To give them a favor, he wanted to destroy his own rune.
How emotional Luc was & how he felt, I almost felt bad for him through the whole game with Sarah.
It's unfortunate he looked at it in a different aspect of solving the problem.Leknaat forgave both of them. They will never be remembered in Suikodens future.
I will do the rest later. I got to hit the grocery store