[FAQ] defend and sleep properties

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KFCrispy
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[FAQ] defend and sleep properties

Postby KFCrispy » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:47 pm

sleep seems to reduce defense to 0. the weird thing is, i was doing more dmg than the total attack value of Futch + Bright. removed Dmg skills and calculated attack valuer after i factored in Futch's Double-Strike (which might be the problem--doing weird math).. their total atk power was 1070 or so but they were hitting sleeping Bronze Suns for 1180 and non-sleepers for 920. i calculated the defense for bronze sun (IGNORING DOUBLE-STRIKE'S POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS) to be 150.

at least this seems true for the enemy. i don't know about your own characters. has anyone noticed someone like Juan taking hits much worse when he sleeps? just wondering.
Last edited by KFCrispy on Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Belle
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Re: sleep status

Postby Belle » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:01 pm

Well, for me, Juan received the same amount of damage whether he was sleeping or awake.

I made sure he woke up, though. Thank God for Firefly runes. XD

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Postby Lechium » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:21 am

firefly is ok during Thomas chapters, but later on -- kinda scary.
However I have noticed that enemies target Juan A LOT. It's as if he almost has firefly =)

P.S Actually firefly may be a good idea if you have Jougler in your party to play Song of Hero, since Juan usually gets his full life back twice in single turn of attacking (note: Nei and Juan are constants when it comes to my party)

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Postby KoRnholio » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:37 am

Really, you got the same amount of damage? I've been getting less damage when he's been sleeping. I've observed about 10 times today, he'll get attacked for 2 and wake up, and the same enemies hit him for 4 damage after he's up. The Wild Boar hit him for 26 to wake him up, then 42 after that. Its almost like a sleeping person is automatically defending.

Another thing I observed about the sleep status is that it actually makes the person behind them be treated as a front-liner. So Piccolo will attack if he's behind a sleeping Juan, and keep attacking until Juan wakes up. And at the beginning of the game, Piccolo is just as strong offensively and defensively as Thomas, so he's not completely useless in random battles. Using his Mallet Rune is better though(x2 damage and keeps him in the back so he's more safe), but by just attacking you can save time by doing Auto, and if Juan doesn't get woken up on the first turn Piccolo can continue attacking(Mallet makes him unbalanced).

A side note: I just got really lucky in Thomas' chapter 1. I bought 10 sequential Iksay lottery tickets the first chance I could, and when I came back, not only had I won the 3,000, but also the 30,000. And then the last ticket won....the 500,000! I didn't even do a save/reset thing! First try! I recruited Watari right away. Now I can actually make these guys strong :)

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Postby Ced The Lad » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:44 am

I don't think that's enough to buy the best equipment as well as getting their weapon to level 12 via Peggie.

I also seemed to take less damage when I was asleep with Juan. Maybe the effect doesn't take place unless it's inflicted during the battle and not before it?
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Postby KoRnholio » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:04 am

Well, I'm still doing stuff like doing heavy trading(Ancient Texts, Crystal Balls) and if I start to run low on funds I'll do some more lotteries. I don't really need level 12 weapons though. Plus, I don't have that many characters to upgrade. Mainly Thomas, Cecile, Piccolo, and Juan.

About the sleep damage. I wonder if unbalance also works this way? I seem to remember in Suikoden 2 at least, unbalanced halved damage like defending.

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Postby KFCrispy » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:43 am

i've seen unbalanced characters do take half damage and defend better.. but probably not if they use an item. i should try to see if they can use scrolls when unbalanced... never even thought of trying in S2!

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Postby Ced The Lad » Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:50 am

I figured that they automatically defend if they're unbalanced. That could be the reason why it's half damage. You may need an enemy magic spell to test that one out.
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Postby Belle » Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:21 pm

Well, to be fair, I only observed the damage once. He got like 8 damage while he was sleeping, and received the same amount the next turn, when he was awake.

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Postby KFCrispy » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:15 pm

LANDIS vs Nemesis
def = 151
ice rain (physical)
sleep, defend 33, 33, 35
sleep, atk 91, 89, 92
atk 73, 77


thunder (magic)
sleep, defend 51, 51
sleep, atk 68, 68
atk 68

def = 82
ice rain
sleep, def 45, 45
sleep, atk 125, 121
atk 104


from my few observations, it seems that sleep DOES remove defense or at least weaken it. maybe there is a damage multiplier for sleeping... 20% seems to work. this can explain why a sleeping enemy took MORE damage than the attacker's total attack power.
i doubt it totally removes defense because landis should have taken about 150 more (his total defense = 151).

but when a pair is commanded to defend and the person is sleeping, the sleeper will be defending but still have the defensive penalty -

the magic doesn't do extra damage when someone is sleeping (something i also observed in S2). but defend did work. seems to be exactly a 25% reduction. i think more testing needs to be done for defend/normal damage relationship in magic.


EMILY vs Nemesis
def = 147
ice rain
atk 104
def 38, 37, 36

single bolt (physical?)
atk 122, 121, 119, 114, 117
def 44, 42, 42

thunder spell
atk 122, 122
def 91

again, we see a 25% reduction when spells are defended against.
physical damage ratio (normal vs defend) seems consistent as well, with defending looking like only taking 35% physical damage and 75% magic damage.

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Postby KFCrispy » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:42 am

From: KoRnholio | Posted: 8/26/2004 7:32:43 PM | Message Detail
I didn't get any magical attacks when i tested right now, but here's what I got for physical.

Direct attacks from the Wild Boar in North Amur Plains...
Hugo - 45% reduction
Sgt. Joe and Fubar - 60% reduction

Direct attack from Devil Eye in Brass Castle Basement...
Fubar - 60% reduction

Command attack from Megawaki in Brass Castle Basement...
Sgt. Joe - 70% reduction

So mine don't necessarily agree with yours....could there be some other factors? DEF, maybe?

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Postby KFCrispy » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:50 am

you're seeing how they get hit without defending then with defending (just wanna check method is same as mine)?

hm, what are your Armor Protect skills? damn i saved over that save i had of the 3 mounted pairs, dont' remember if i messed with their Skills.

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Postby KoRnholio » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:03 am

With the Wild Boars, I had them defend, and then not defend.

With the Devil Eye/Megawaki, it was not defend then defend.

I don't think any of them had armor protect skills on. Sgt. Joe would be a possibility.

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Postby KFCrispy » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:58 am

the 60% and 70% might be close, especially when you're at lower levels with weaker enemies, there is more margin for variation due to the random aspects. testing vs harder hitters will make the defense value less effective and you may get the 65% i did. but i definitely will test further myself.... the only weird number is Hugo, although it could still be explained by low levels. how much damage is it doing? my units vs Nemesis were taking 130s

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Postby KoRnholio » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:58 pm

It was 65 damage not defending, 35 damage defending.


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