Accidental Attack - a serious necro?

[ronnen]

Found this while making some technical notes on data structures, and then trying to figure out what "Accidental Attack" is in the actual game: http://suikosource.yuku.com/topic/654/Accidental-Attack

Pyriel mentions its not a rune, but possibly an unimplemented combination attack. I personally am of the theory that it is a spell, not a unite. Even though its located in the ELF right next to the unite attacks (and spaced out away from other spells), unites are formatted almost exactly like spells but contain 8 extra bytes to make room for describing who the participants are... so they are 40 bytes long instead of 32 bytes long. And, Accidental Attack is 32 bytes long so there you go.

If you are curious i believe its spell id would be 0x65 in hex. Its 21 positions below "Lion" (the spell effect for the Lion rune) which is spell id 0x50.

Code breaker (RAW) code to overwrite it to Chris's Phoenix rune would be something like:

019a61f0 00000065

Or if you wanted to keep Phoenix normal ability and add Accidental Attack as a second command something like:

219a61f0 00650034

(Adding it didn't work, only replace)

Going to play around with that a bit later but at face value it seems fully implemented. Makes you area of effect attack your allies (even though it is set to have you target an enemy)... I guess you "accidently" hit your allies instead? Level 50 wpn 16 Chris pretty much one shot my level 34 Shabon hahah...

[KFCrispy]

is it just the spell backfire effect?

[ronnen]

Could be, I've never actually seen a spell backfire in game though. I assume you are talking about Blinking magic, which I've never used to be honest because it never appealed to me (not a gambling man if you can't tell!)

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely have to see if the blue sparkly stuff that goes along with that animation matches Blink failures.

[Pyriel]

Wasn't there a limited potential for any rune to backfire in this game? Something like if the character had low enough Magic and/or skill with that type of Rune, it could just backfire entirely? I recall one of the games had it, but their skill had to be so abysmal that you'd almost never hit it with anybody you were likely to give a magic Rune to.

[ronnen]

That would also be a good reason for me to have never seen it... I pretty much never cast anything without at least a B in the skill as it takes so long, outside of the rare instance I use a backup healer to drop some Kindness.

I haven't found the spell cast battle routine yet, so I can't hack that failure chance to 100% at the moment... we'll see!

[eldrasidar]

I know big viki can have spells backfire on her regardless of what magic she was using or her skill level. It was a particular part of her specifically though I believe.

[Jocky]

If this is indeed a spell then I suppose it would make sense that its the response of a rune backfire which I've seen a couple of times. It's where the character, instead of having the symbol of the rune appear above their head and then cast the spell, sort of has a small explosion appear on them and then they flinch like they've been hit. It's as Pyriel says, 1 of the games did include this when the bearer of the rune had a very poor MAG skill.
Whereas if this WAS meant to be a unite attack then would it not be along the lines of Viki's one where she accidentally teleports (Abizboah & Rulodia or Georg, Killey & Lorelai) above the enemy? I think it was called Heads Up! in S2 and Fate in S5. But perhaps in this 1 it could just happen to anyone randomy?

[Pyriel]

If what ronnen says about the data structure is true, and I see no reason to doubt him, it's almost certainly magic. When a game uses fixed-width structures and indices rather than pointers, they rarely branch out and make one entry differently for the hell of it. I didn't think about it back in the day, but that's actually a pretty common way to accomplish what backfiring does. It's akin to how the caster of a unite spell has his action replaced, except in this case it can happen to anyone at any time if they're unlucky and below whatever thresholds the game sets.

[Jocky]

So does that mean that when a Magic Rune is attached to a character that they 'technically' have 5 spells, with 1 being the hidden "Accidental Attack" spell. And then those characters that are below whatever threshold the game has set, have the Accidental Attack spell set to some percentage to replace the spell the caster has tried to use? I suppose that would make sense! But then again the only way to truly confirm this is to have someone play around with the code, and replace a normal spell with the code for the Accident Attack spell and see if it looks the same as a spell backfire. I'd love to see if this is indeed the case, but I don't know how to open the game to see the code. Anyone up for the task? Or the alternative is to point me in the direction of the tools & info needed to do it!

[ronnen]

I already made a code to do so with Chris's Phoenix rune is in one of my earlier posts.
I just don't know what a normal backfire looks like because I've never seen it

So if someone wants to use my code (codebreaker raw: 019a61f0 00000065) and verify what it looks like, that'd be great. I will note that using this code is best done when turning the code on and starting the game and loading a gamesave, not a save state! This code modifies the fixed memory portion of the game, not the dynamic portion... so if you load a save state then the game might "ignore" the code in lieu of what it already put into the dynamic memory when you made the save state...

Also, interesting note, Accidental Attack is attached to a rune in the game without any modifications. Seems to be attached to a rune that my table parser named "Blank 44"... meaning that since there are 46 "named" runes (i.e. ones that show up in the game normally) that precede it... it would be the "90th" rune or 0x5A rune.

Code: Select all

patch=1,EE,219A6AA4,extended,????????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Price 150

patch=1,EE,219A6AA8,extended,????????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Slot 7

patch=1,EE,119A6AAC,extended,0000????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Skill Association <INT>

patch=1,EE,119A6AAE,extended,0000????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Skill Unknown Factor <INT>

patch=1,EE,119A6AB0,extended,0000????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Level 1 Spell id Accidental Attack

patch=1,EE,119A6AB2,extended,0000????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Level 2 Spell id <SPELL>

patch=1,EE,119A6AB4,extended,0000????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Level 3 Spell id <SPELL>

patch=1,EE,119A6AB6,extended,0000????     	//// Blank	44 Rune Level 4 Spell id <SPELL>

No idea why that is there though... several of the "blank" runes have a single spell attached like the Blank 1 rune has the "nononon" spell associated with it (there are two of these spells, this one is the second one... neither of them seem to do anything in game though). Blank 3 rune even has the "Lion" spell, which is an actual spell but the other data is off and the actual Lion rune precedes it by about 8 runes.

You can see what I mean here on my Rune Codes list (Or see how to tweak what spells are are what runes etc):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hx0 ... sp=sharing

"Rune Slot" by the way refers to the "handedness" of the rune. Some runes are head or right or left only (i.e. the Pale Gate rune). (bitmask - 01 head only, 02 right only, 04 left only, 07 all)

Spell ids btw isn't something i've seen many places... so i made my own little file. Just throw the list that follows into Notepad++ or something similar that displays line number, and convert the line number into hex... that is your spell id.

Code: Select all

Flaming Arrows

Dancing Flames

Blazing Wall

Explosion

Final Flame

Hellfire

Thunder Runner

Beserk Blow

Soaring Bolt

Furious Blow

Thunder Storm

Hammer of Raijin

Wind of Sleep

Healing Wind

The Shredding

Funeral Wind

Shining Wind

Eternal Wind

Kindness Drops

Breath of Ice

Kindness Rain

Silent Lake

Mother Ocean

Heavenly Drops

Clay Guardian

Vengeful Child

Guardian Earth

Earthquake

Canopy Defense

Land of Eternity

Battle Oath

Great Blessing

Battlefield

nono nothing

Blink1

Blink2

Blink3

Sword of Rage

Fire Amulet

Sword of Thunder

Thunder Amulet

Sword of Cyclone

Wind Amulet

Open Gate

Royal Passage

Pale Palace

Empty World

Song of Skylark

Song of Serenity

Song of Madness

Song of a Hero

Phoenix

Shining Wind

Double Tusk

Eight Devil

Ripple

Boronda Hawk

Isshin

War Horse

Mallet

Shining Wing

Watari Special

Gadget

Comet

Devil's Doll

Shrike

Spreading Flame

Wrath

Red Rose

Sickle Weasel

Full Moon

Viper

Titan

Unicorn

Goss?

?? nononon 1

Great Hawk

Kite

?? nononon 2

Lion

Blank 1

Blank 2

Blank 3

Blank 4

Blank 5

Blank 6

Blank 7

Blank 8

Blank 9

Blank 10

Blank 11

Blank 12

Blank 13

Blank 14

Blank 15

Blank 16

Blank 17

Blank 18

Blank 19

Blank 20

Blank 21

Accidental Attack

[eldrasidar]

what the heck is a watari special? As far as I know Watari has nothing special except a unite with Ayame.

[KFCrispy]

Watari Special is an incomplete rune that does work but lacks an animation: http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8833

I'm pretty sure only certain characters like Viki, Mel, and Piccolo, can naturally backfire, but the Alert status allows anyone to backfire.