[FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

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Punkaiser
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by Punkaiser »

I'll check again soon. But in the last playthrough, even with her skill raised to 200, DD's damage still varied, not too much but still. I remmember it was in range 7.2k-7.9k on Copper Sun. Hope you could fix that wire soon, so we can see what Mel and Bright's rune could do with an attack value=1.
KFCrispy
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by KFCrispy »

ugh i tried doing some testing today with an emulator so i could load states faster (but the computer's not good enough so it's painfully slow, and i can't manipulate stats), the numbers are so inconsistent it makes my head hurt. there were several times where Mel did more damage than even her ATK score, and other times where she did so little damage on her first hit her second hit was greater than the first..........
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by Punkaiser »

Sorry i didnt mention that the fire element does seem to have effect. If we use Devil's Doll or spreading flame on enemy like the granny tree, damage seems to be doubled while it seems to be x1.5 on Twin snake main body( ie: 2k on normal mobs then 4k on the tree and 3k on the snake body)

***And just a theory, but since there's a possibility spreading flame acts like 0.8 multiplier(100 fire DMG) we may also consider a possibility DD rune is a 2.4 DMG multiplier (300 fire DMG).
eldrasidar
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by eldrasidar »

KFCrispy wrote:the numbers are so inconsistent it makes my head hurt. there were several times where Mel did more damage than even her ATK score, and other times where she did so little damage on her first hit her second hit was greater than the first..........
well, we did warn you about that.
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Punkaiser
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by Punkaiser »

KFC, did you try to set Mel attack to low value? Just to make sure the number 300 stuff doesnt meddle in.
KFCrispy
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by KFCrispy »

just did some testing. i realized i codetwink doesn't provide WPN level modifiers, so i ended up with a "low" ATK of 210 (60str + her lvl 16 wpn), and i also tested with a str of 400 (meaning atk=550).
i really don't know what to say about the results.

ATK=210, SKL=255, normal LUK
Songsprite: normal 115-244, avg about 185; Devil's Doll - 262, 430, 514, 371

ATK=550, SKL=255, LUK=255 (figured maybe LUK is a problem)
Songsprite: normal 499-614, avg about 525; Devil's Doll - 1018, 1110, 1029

i averaged a 25 PDF, even though when testing with super-consistent Bright, i got a 15 PDF on the same enemy. her LUK stat seemed to give Devil's Doll a more consistent result (?). but it's hard to tell what's going on. Against the Siren the Devil's Doll damage jumped from 226 and 228 to 863 and 982 (only tested 2 times with each ATK).
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Punkaiser
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by Punkaiser »

KFCrispy wrote: ATK=210, SKL=255, normal LUK
Songsprite: normal 115-244, avg about 185; Devil's Doll - 262, 430, 514, 371
ATK=550, SKL=255, LUK=255 (figured maybe LUK is a problem)
Songsprite: normal 499-614, avg about 525; Devil's Doll - 1018, 1110, 1029
Surprises me, i never cared much about her luck before...but there's really nothing can help, no luck gear set in game anyway.

Along with your Bright's test, there are 3 hypotheses I will make:
1. Spreading flame deal 0.7x dmg => songsprite is neutral to fire => possibly Devil's doll deals 2.1x dmg
2. Spreading flame deal 0.8x dmg => songsprite is at 114% fire affinity => Devil's doll deals 2.4x dmg
3. Spreading flame deals 100% damage but with fire based element=> songsprite is at 143% fire affinity => Devil's doll deals 300% fire based damage

Theory 3 is best bet to save the false(or incomplete?) rune description but also is the most ambiguous one. Unless we find a way to confirm a monster fire affinity, otherwise its really hard to advance.
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Punkaiser
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by Punkaiser »

I think i've solved this problem with a test today.

Test with Geddoe's fire spell versus Troll Dragon
Geddoe has no fire skill nor any fire related equipment.
Geddoe magic is 96
Test details:

1)
Lv1 fire(60DMG to one foe) deals 25 damage on Troll dragon, same result for 3 tries so we can rest assured there's no random stuff is involved

2)
Lv2 fire(150DMG to an area) deals 88 ....same number for 2nd try so i don't bother anymore

Let's call Troll dragon's MDF is x and its fire affinity is y, through 1) we will have :
(96+60-x)/y=25
=>156-x=25y
=>x=156-25y (*)

with 2) we can form another equation:
(96+150-x)/y=88
=>246-x=88y

replace x in (*) into this equation we will have:
246-(156-25y)=88y
=>90=63y
=>y=1.43 (**)

replace this to (*) => x=156-25*1.43
=> x=120

To make sure this one is accurate, I tested lv3 fire spell (400DMG to an area) and it dealt 263 damage on troll dragon=> YEAH!!!

Conclusion: troll dragon has 120 MDF and 143% fire affinity

I'll take your Bright vs Troll Dragon test : normal hit 577 and spreading flame 403
since troll dragon has a fire affinity of 1.43 and SF deals 403 damage on it, so litteraly with an affinity of 100%(neutral) spreading flame must deal : 403*1.43= 576 damage
compare this to output from normal hit, we can see that it fits 100% (ignore minor error ratio)

FINAL CONCLUSION :
Spreading Flame rune deals 100% damage(base on Bright physical stats) but only is affected by enemy's fire affinity
KFCrispy
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by KFCrispy »

wow nice!!
eldrasidar
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by eldrasidar »

the other way to look at it, is that against a troll dragon, 403/576 = .6996 or essentially 70% damage against a monster with high fire resistance. The more interesting thing about this, is that if it actually does 80% damage most of the time such as it does against copper suns, than that means the average fire resistance for monsters is 20%
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by KFCrispy »

So Mel's rune could be dealing 300% damage and the average enemy takes 80% of that. I don't remember if I got Bright's damage ratios on the Songsprite, but looking at my high LUK test it seems to fall in line with the Songsprite having 30% resistance. But with Mel's extremely varied normal attack which sometimes deals more than her ATK value (yes after enemy defense is applied) and other times a lot less than expected, it's hard to tell how well or poor she'll do!
eldrasidar
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by eldrasidar »

which would be about 240% damage, which is about right. Even though she's pretty erratic in damage, from the small amount of data we've collected she usually does somewhere between 200% and 280%, so presumably if we did a whole bunch of tests, she would average out to 240%. So I guess we could change the official wording of it to something like this:

Devil's Doll: Does 300% damage minus fire resistance versus one enemy. Average output is 240% damage.*
*Actual damage may vary widely.
KFCrispy
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by KFCrispy »

yup. great job!
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Re: [FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

Post by KFCrispy »

i've updated our Runes database (though not our runes) so i'll take down the sticky finally! big thanks to Punkaiser!
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