Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

If you are stuck in the Flame Champion War; or wish for more details on gameplay issues, ask your questions in this forum.
User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Fri May 18, 2012 11:57 am

Here's the list

Level 67 potential DD ranking

Note:
- All chars are at level 67 except Chris at level 99 and Beast as Bright, Fubar, Ruby..etc.. are at level 73
- Unite with * mark means that unite isn't useful (requires too many participants) so Damage modifier(DM) from it won't get counted in character's total DM
- DM from swings count from number of swings that character has, consider that 2nd swing =0.7x the first and the 2nd, 3rd...=0.5x the first
Exemple: Watatari has 5 swings=> DM from swing he's got = 1 + 0.7 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 3.2 multiplier
Sum up:
1swing= 1x
2swings= 1.7x
3swings= 2.2x
4swings= 2.7x
5swings= 3.2x
6swings= 3.7x
7swings= 4.2x
8swings= 4.7x

How do we convert Crit rate to damage modifier:
/\Characters who depend on unite attacks or special rune atacks get no benefit of this as those attack types never crit.
/\For character who have A chance to crit hit for double damage, the damage modifier would be (1 + A). Exemple: Shabon has 11% crit rate=> her converted damage modifier = 1.11
/\For a character who have A chance to crit hit for double damage and B chance for triple damage, the damage modifier in this case would be 1+A+2B. Exemple: Chris has 13.6% to double damage and 3.4% to triple damage=> her converted damage modifier = 1.204
/\Yuiri is a special case as she's the only one who has both heavy damage and sharpshoot skill, when her H-Damage skill reaches S, along with the permanent Killer rune, her damage modifier from crit becomes 1.81 times as averaged.

- Final score = pure damage before enemy defence = total attack * total DM
Ranking chart:
[E]final score <1500
[D]1500<final score<2000
[C]2000<final score<3000
[B]3000<final score<4000
[A]4000<final score<5000
[S]final score > 5000

- Characters who depend on rune or normal attacks but have low hit rate are penalized by having one rank demoted
Last edited by Punkaiser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
gildedtalon
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:15 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby gildedtalon » Fri May 18, 2012 5:58 pm

Why are there doubles for Lucia, Nei, Rody, Shabon?

No Luc, Sarah, Yuber?
My GameFAQs account now is SheenavsKilley
I already closed gildedtalon, my old account

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Fri May 18, 2012 7:53 pm

Some of these characters are repeated because their builds are different, for exemple first Lucia use warrior rune in 3rd slot while second Lucia use Magic sword in 3rd slot..etc..
I don't really consider The Destroyers in ranking because there's no option about switching them in and out with other members, their chapter is just an extra.

MegafaunaB.krieg
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby MegafaunaB.krieg » Fri May 18, 2012 9:04 pm

Sgt. Joe's ranking is based on using the mounted attack, but Shabon's ranking is not, right? I mean...Sgt. Joe will not do the same kind of damage as Shabon/Nei/Emily/etc solo, will he?

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Fri May 18, 2012 9:07 pm

No, Joe's potential was ranked base on handsome clan unite.
And yes, if Joe attacks alone, he's not even in top 10. For single damage dealer, you could view the video for top 10 DD earlier.

User avatar
gildedtalon
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:15 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby gildedtalon » Fri May 18, 2012 10:15 pm

The unexpected is Melville, I thought he's pretty much a joke character
Suits Lucia well, I've never liked/used that bitch. With this, I don't even want to try her out ahahahhaha
Sad to find my favourites, Duke and Jacques only gets rank C and D
These two are my favourites before I figure out the importance of rune slots and swing skill :(
My GameFAQs account now is SheenavsKilley
I already closed gildedtalon, my old account

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Sat May 19, 2012 12:38 am

I rank Jaques up to C now since with sharpshooter at S he should have a fairly good critical rate.
Talking about favorite, i like Yuiri very much, but can't pump her up any higher.

MegafaunaB.krieg
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby MegafaunaB.krieg » Sat May 19, 2012 5:23 am

well it's not like anything in this game is so hard that you need to use a party of Shabon, Emily, Nei, FC, etc. Use your favorites anyways! Although I agree it is kind of a bummer that some of the neat characters rank so low. Some of the ones who ranked high were surprising as well, however.

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Sat May 19, 2012 10:09 pm

yea, just so we see how important unites are, extra x2 or x2.5 DM is a real deal.

And there's a nice thing i found during characters weapon power exam:
weapon power of the beasts (fubar,ruby..etc) is always equal to 1.5x of their strength or other wau to say it, their total base attack is always 2.5x times of their strength value
e.g. : strength 100-> weapon 150-> total attack 250
This means every 1 strength point they gain will bring in 2.5 attack power, that fact makes strength stone trick to have 2.5 times effect on them compared to human.

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:16 pm

update: factor in crit rate and hit rate.

EasymodeX
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby EasymodeX » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:58 am

To verify, you do not account for continual attack, correct?

Also, as a general mechanics question, armor gets applied versus every normal attack in a multi-swing attack, but only once when the multiple swings are accumulated in a single unite attack or rune attack, right?

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:35 am

I donn't account continual attack because:
1. It isn't always triggered
2. If it occurs, then will take place at the end of the turn. But with optimized setup for the team, the battles should be already over so in real practice, it doesn't contribute anything.

Instead of multi swings, only one hit was shown in unite & rune attacks but it's only a matter of animation, think of it just like a total score of some invisible swings. The damage output is calculated in the same as we do normal attacks, but with a certain damage modifier according to the rune or unite.
For exemple: if Augustine does 2k in total with his 5 swings, then he'll definitely do 4k with red rose rune.

EasymodeX
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby EasymodeX » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:07 pm

I understand that from a base damage perspective -- however, the question is where target armor is calculated. Seems to be towards the end of the calculations. For example:

Two swings: 100, 70
Add 50 target armor: 50, 20
Add 2x crits: 200-50, 140-50 (150, 90)

240 damage is more than double 70 damage, e.g. the value of the 2x crits is a lot more than "2x damage".

A rune/unite attack may or may not have the same effect where they mitigate armor by simply using a higher base damage before armor is subtracted*. This would have a significant impact on the value of Heavy Damage as a skill, and rune/unite abilities in general. I should have paid more attention when I used Maximilian on the golem boss last night ...


*Entire analysis depends on armor using a simple subtraction formula to reduce damage. Pretty sure that's accurate though.


Continual Attack discussion:

Nice spreadsheet. I'm adapting it to use for a "less than max damage" optimization. E.g. I don't like using most unites, and I don't really want to use DS runes. This significantly alters all the rankings and such. I'll also probably restrict off Warrior or Fury runes, and may just leave all my characters as mage hybrids. In any case, the final result is a huge amount less direct damage output, which makes continual attack more realistic and relevant in my comparisons.

Just wanted to confirm that you didn't have it in the spreadsheet and I didn't notice so that I can add adjustments to scoring with CA.

User avatar
Punkaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:21 am

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:29 pm

EasymodeX wrote:240 damage is more than double 70 damage, e.g. the value of the 2x crits is a lot more than "2x damage".
A rune/unite attack may or may not have the same effect where they mitigate armor by simply using a higher base damage before armor is subtracted*. This would have a significant impact on the value of Heavy Damage as a skill, and rune/unite abilities in general. I should have paid more attention when I used Maximilian on the golem boss last night ...

You're right about this part, as crit hit will ignores enemies defence so its damage is higher than 2x when fighting againts some opponents with hard shell(golem) however in other case, againts weak defence ones such as ghost armor, crit isnt any better than other 2x or 3x damage sources. As we can't calculate every possibilities of enemies defence(and don't even have the bestiary to do that) so I had to ignore enemies defence factor in the spreadsheet. One thing i gotta admit in the end that in long term, critical hits would deserve a little more credit.

E.g. I don't like using most unites, and I don't really want to use DS runes. This significantly alters all the rankings and such. I'll also probably restrict off Warrior or Fury runes, and may just leave all my characters as mage hybrids. In any case, the final result is a huge amount less direct damage output, which makes continual attack more realistic and relevant in my comparisons.

Just wanted to confirm that you didn't have it in the spreadsheet and I didn't notice so that I can add adjustments to scoring with CA.

Of course I can understand why you want to play the game in your way though, it's still for entertainment anyway, so effectiveness isn't always the top priority.
This sheet serves power gaming purpose, may be pretty close to an optimization guide so I'm not allowed to put any preferences here as they vary for each individual. If there was any better suggestion that would help those characters to deal even more damage, I'd modify the content with no hesitation. The sheet is made this way to show what characters can do with the right setup (and must be realistic enough to be done in pratice)

EasymodeX
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: Level 67 characters physical attack ranking

Postby EasymodeX » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:50 am

Do you have microsoft excel?


Return to “Suikoden III”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest