[Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

If you are stuck in the Flame Champion War; or wish for more details on gameplay issues, ask your questions in this forum.
User avatar
Celes
Global Admin
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:25 pm

Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Celes » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:52 am

I believe it works like

<attribute of second best skill> + <type of best skill> rank.

This rule applies for lower skills as well.

But I'm curious about your findings.

eldrasidar
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:53 am

Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby eldrasidar » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:49 pm

so I've done so more looking into it, and from what I can tell, the title system works like this

you need at least two skills to get any sort of a title.

your title can be either 1 part or 2 parts

only a few of the titles are 1 word
the only ones I've found are:
guard
slasher
knight
(there's probably more, I just haven't figured out how to isolate them)

all three of these can be formed in multiple ways, but in all cases, characters with these titles have predominantly physical skills. moreover, many of physical skills seem to be split into two categories, offensive and defensive

offensive skills
swing, damage, heavy damage, continual attack

defensive skills
armor protect, shield protect, parry?, counter-attack, repel

having more and better offensive skills leans a character towards Slasher, a mix of both makes Knights, and more and better defensive skills leans towards guard.

so far as I can tell, the rest of the titles are 2 part combinations

every magic based title is 2 part, the first part being their dominant magic skill(unclear what precisely makes one skill dominant over another), the second part being related to what sort of magic user they are. XCmdr has a good magic skill, and an offensive physical skill. XMage or XMagicn has at least one good magic skill as well as a defensive physical skill like repel, and no offensive physical skills.

other titles seem to be made from combinations of odd skills like Adrenaline Power, Holy Dash with other skills both physical and magic.

it definitely seems to me that many, if not all titles actually do look at all the character's skills, even if only the two strongest appear to be represented.

KFCrispy
Global Admin
Posts: 5977
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:29 pm

Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby KFCrispy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:37 pm

i was on the gamefaqs boards in a discussion about behavior based on titles. i know for a fact that as Geddoe changed throughout Chapters 1-3 in my games, he often went from defending when he was in the back row (at some point, probably due to leveling his Lightning skill greatly) to always attacking. also, someone like Piccolo usually will never bother to attack if he's in the back.

eldrasidar
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:53 am

Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby eldrasidar » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:58 am

hmm, i know piccolo changes his back row tactics, generally he starts of attacking(usually missing), but then as you bump up his magic, he stops. I don't really know about geddoe though, since I usually have him in the front row in chp. 1-3, since he has better armor than queen, who he is usually paired with.

another thing we look into is the effect on front row behavior. I observe that for example Guards and Knights will stay back if their back partner is casting a spell. they will also swap places with their back row partners if an enemy's direct attack would kill the back row partner. slashers meanwhile will not do either of these things.

laclongquan
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:42 am

Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby laclongquan » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:44 pm

Celes wrote:So, I did some testings with titles. First of all, I must say, the algorithms behind this are kind of crude and clumsy. Then again no titles, except some of the ones given by Jefferson, serve a purpose.

Here is what I found out so far:
  • A character can have up to 3 titles. A combination of 3, out of the ones listed above. I call them "Title Slots 1-3"
  • I think not all titles are available in-game, as some skill combinations are impossible.
Title Slot 3
  • Title Slot 3 is reserved for titles given by Jefferson.
  • Each title can be given to 1 char.
  • Per char, one title in Title Slot 3 is possible
  • Support characters cannot receive a title of this kind (which is a shame, because there are boosts to support skills as well)
  • Some of these titles boost skills, some are just for show
Title Slots 1 & 2
  • A character must have a least two skills (lv doesn't matter) to get a title here. This rule is rather dumb for support characters, as they have a fixed number of skills.
    This is why, for example, Tuta (Healing A+) has no title at all, while Jeane (Healing E, Rune Sage A) is "HealerRuneSG"
  • The game picks the two skills with the highest lv and generates a title out of these. It seems that - not sure here - all the other skills don't matter at all. "Generates" means, that it doesn't grant one title slot per skill.
    Some examples:
    - Repel + Damage = Knight
    - Damage + Armor Protect = ArmoredKnight
    - Repel + Armor Protect = Guard
    - Swing + Armor Protect = ArmoredKnight
    - Holy Dash + Armor Protect = MobilityKnight
    Due to her 6 fixed skills, for example, Chris will always end up as a "Knight" when maxed out, not matter what you give her for the 2 free slots.
  • Skill lv boosts by equipment are not taken into account.
  • Now comes the tricky part. First, I don't know how the game behaves in case of skill lv ties. But, I can say for sure it sometimes do picks one out of two (or more) skills with the same lv and ignores the rest.
    It does not choose by order of skilling.
    It does not choose from top to bottom of the list, or the other way around.
    At least it does seem to prefer support skills over combat skills. If you have a tie between a support and a combat skill, it will always choose the support skill.
  • When 1 support skill is among the two choosen skills, a prefixed title is added for the support skill. Don't know how it behaves for the other for sure atm.
  • When 2 support skills are choosen, two prefixed titles are given. The order is a total mystery.
    Examples:
    Healing C + Tutor C = HealerProf
    Cook D + Trade-in D = TradInCook
  • Otherwise the title seems to be based on the second best skill, in most cases.
    Some more examples:
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ = ReflexMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ + Precision B+ = ReflexMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ + Precision B+ + Water Magic B+ = ReflexMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ + Precision B+ + Water Magic A = IceMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Water Magic A + Pale Gate Magic B+ = IceMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Water Magic A + Pale Gate Magic A = GateMagicn

Someone on GameFAQs stated once, that the title has influence on the characters second-row behavoir in battle. So a "Slasher" will attack if the person in the front row uses an item, while a "Magicn" will just defend. Haven't tested this yet. Would be cool if they serve a purpose after all!

Further, I don't know what happens, when skill boosts given by Jeffersons titles like "Healer" or "Appraiser" for chars who do not posses the skill at all. Either it is ignored or set to "E", yet invisible. If the latter is the case, a character could have actually more than 8 skills. If not, the skill boost "Appraiser" would be useless, due to the fact no combat char with Appraisal skill exist.

Well, perhaps I try to figure out the skill results if I have some time. To figure out the game's decision on ties would be most interesting by now, for further testings. Maybe someone has an idea.


MAJOR NECRO~

Newbie to S3 dropping in and want to ask:

Muto has Appraisal skill. However, he's support.

Do we have any way to use Appraisal proactively? Or does it only works when we get a ? dropped item?

User avatar
Pyriel
Webmaster
Posts: 926
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:20 pm

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby Pyriel » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:55 pm

I'm not sure how to parse that. If identifying the item when it's dropped is the reactive case, what's the proactive case? Identifying it when it's still in the monster's inventory?

eldrasidar
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:53 am

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby eldrasidar » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:54 pm

the appraisal skill is a passive ability if any character with the appraisal skill, like Muto, is in your party. at the end of a battle in which you would be awarded an item that could be taken to an appraiser later, there is a small chance that it will be given to you already appraised rather than as a mystery item. It is not a skill where you can go into the menu and actively appraise items you acquire.

laclongquan
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:42 am

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby laclongquan » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:21 pm

Buh~

And Muto's ability is not that reliable. I got a bunch of ? items.

KFCrispy
Global Admin
Posts: 5977
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:29 pm

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby KFCrispy » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:38 am

i really encourage you guys to explore our Guides section and the Stickies in the forum.
the Appraisal skill is described in detail just like all the other skills in our S3 Skills Guide.

highwind44029
Posts: 1487
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:40 am

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby highwind44029 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:27 am

Somewhat of a necro, but I think the Appraisal title was supposed to be tailor-fit for Guillaume (much like the Healing+ appointment was optimized for Sanae Y since she's the only fighting character with the Healing skill) since I remember reading he was programmed to have combat skills, but he ended up being usable only as a support.

User avatar
LucMcDohl
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:01 pm

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby LucMcDohl » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:44 am

Necro being drudging up an old topic? That's clever.

I've been trying to manipulate titles in order to get as much casting as possible for the upcoming war battles so I'm really glad I found this topic.

I believe it only counts abilities above a certain point in the calculation of titles and thus if you only have one, that's the only one that's counted. i.e. Queen right now is a StormMage since I haven't leveled anything other than Wind Magic on her. When I level up Swing or Heavy Damage to a B rank, she turns into a StormCmdr. and when I level both Swing and Heavy Damage to a B rank, she forgets all about being a mage and just goes back to being a Knight.

I assume having a Mage/Magicn title drastically improves the rates of the AI casting and thus I want to keep it that way, but I also don't want to make her completely useless. (Fortunately, Geddoe's chapters are completely dominated by magic and I'm grossly overpowered from having spent a lot of time farming rings.)

I'm also assuming that Mage goes to offensive magic while Magicn goes to defensive magic (my Aila is the only Magicn in my party while Geddoe, Queen, and Joker are all Mages). ...I wonder if being a Magicn means I'll never get Earthquake out of her in war battles? (Which is fine since... she can't participate in them anyway but... that's troublesome for other Earth users and completely defeats the purpose of all of these Earth Magic Rings I've gotten thus far.)

User avatar
LucMcDohl
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:01 pm

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby LucMcDohl » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:51 pm

Some more curiosities...

Nash is now a StormMage with Repel and Wind Magic at B+.

Wilder, however, is a StormMagicn with Magic Repel and Wind Magic at B+.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: [Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:47 am

So titles determine the AI type of every usable character during war battles?
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.


Return to “Suikoden III”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests