[Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

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eldrasidar
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[Discussion] Where do Titles come from?

Postby eldrasidar » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:32 pm

I've been doing a new playthrough recently, and I've been trying to figure out how each title is formed(ie. why is somebody and knight rather than a slasher, the difference between Mage and Magicn etc.). So far I've figured out that the title has to do with what skills a character has and how high they are ranked, some are pretty obvious and only based on one skill, while others are based on a combination of skills. here's a list of the titles I've found so far(often two of which are combined) with guesses of what is required for those I've looked at(high skill level = B or better?):

Knight
Guard
Cmdr.
Magicn
Mage
Fighter
Slasher
Priest
Earth-high earth skill
Fire-high fire skill
Thunder-high lightning skill
Ice-high water skill
Gate-high gate skill
Yell-high fighting spirit?
Shout-high chanting volume
Reflex
Armored-high armor protect?
Mobility-high Holy Dash
Storm-high Wind
Magic-only high skill is magic based?
LeRsnt-high Magic resistance.


So yeah, this could use some work and any help would be appreciated. I don't have any method of looking into the code so I'm mostly just trial and error checking these. I also haven't included any support based titles(such as Discnt for Ace's discount skill), nor have I included jefferson's titles.

Cheers

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Celes
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Celes » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:58 pm

These "titles" are on the disc. The ones at the bottom are given by the appointer. A character can get a combination of up to 3 titles, I believe. I have seen most of them, yet not all.

Any findings on this system would be appreciated :)

Slasher
Knight
Cmdr.
LeRsnt
Guard
Mage
Herculn
Magicn
Priest
Rider
Shield
Armored
Fire
Ice
Storm
Earth
Thunder
Gate
Magic
Healer
Fighter
Cook
Apprsl
Discnt
Fight
Study
Rune
TradIn
Sing
Jonglr
Bathing
Hunter
Trade
CheSpr
Yell
Thief
Haggle
ClvrCr
Heavy
$Grubbr
Mrchnt
Wizard
Apprsr
Discntr
BujTch
Prof
RuneSG
Kenpo
Apsabl
Stingy
TchBuj
SldSch
Singer
Singing
Poet
Scholar
Miser
UltMis
Wealthy
Bath
Vendor
Deadly
Blink
Sword
Reflex
Focus
Prcisn
Presrv
Shout
GrVoic
Mobility
Overhand
FastNerd

Captain
Lt.
RearSgt.
Sgt.
General
SqdCmdr.
5MdlLt.
Colonel
Min.
Gov.
SecWar
GrCown
Marquis
Earl
Count
Baron
Emperor
TopCmdr.
ShdwBss
PM

KFCrispy
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby KFCrispy » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:09 pm

wow, i have never seen most of the titles, but i guess it's because i build characters almost the same way every time.. i wish there was some set of rules that we could find that defines how the titles work.

eldrasidar
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby eldrasidar » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 pm

it's tricky, many of these titles come from unusual combinations of skills, and with so many special skills like Parry which only some characters get, it could be tricky. also, from what I can tell so far, raising up all of a characters skills limits you to only a few titles. the titles I originally gave were from a save file where I had leveled up nearly everybody. taking away the support skill titles, there's about 20 there I've never encountered knowingly. so I can only assume the come from unique and not persay ideal skill leveling. FastNerd might be for example a combination of some magic skills, and maybe holy dash? I'll look into this more over the weekend and such, see if I come up with any results.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:28 pm

Cock

... Okay.

Wonder how you get that.
Doctorum Non Urina Singulus.

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Chris_Lightfellow
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Chris_Lightfellow » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:16 pm

Maybe a fist fighter? Cocking your arm to punch? Only thing I can think of.
And if I saw you dancing, I would spin you around, spin you around, turn your world upside down

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Celes
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Celes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:39 pm

Spelling mistake. It is "Cook".

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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Chris_Lightfellow » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:51 pm

Oh, that makes much more sense.
And if I saw you dancing, I would spin you around, spin you around, turn your world upside down

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Celes
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Celes » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:21 am

So, I did some testings with titles. First of all, I must say, the algorithms behind this are kind of crude and clumsy. Then again no titles, except some of the ones given by Jefferson, serve a purpose.

Here is what I found out so far:
  • A character can have up to 3 titles. A combination of 3, out of the ones listed above. I call them "Title Slots 1-3"
  • I think not all titles are available in-game, as some skill combinations are impossible.
Title Slot 3
  • Title Slot 3 is reserved for titles given by Jefferson.
  • Each title can be given to 1 char.
  • Per char, one title in Title Slot 3 is possible
  • Support characters cannot receive a title of this kind (which is a shame, because there are boosts to support skills as well)
  • Some of these titles boost skills, some are just for show
Title Slots 1 & 2
  • A character must have a least two skills (lv doesn't matter) to get a title here. This rule is rather dumb for support characters, as they have a fixed number of skills.
    This is why, for example, Tuta (Healing A+) has no title at all, while Jeane (Healing E, Rune Sage A) is "HealerRuneSG"
  • The game picks the two skills with the highest lv and generates a title out of these. It seems that - not sure here - all the other skills don't matter at all. "Generates" means, that it doesn't grant one title slot per skill.
    Some examples:
    - Repel + Damage = Knight
    - Damage + Armor Protect = ArmoredKnight
    - Repel + Armor Protect = Guard
    - Swing + Armor Protect = ArmoredKnight
    - Holy Dash + Armor Protect = MobilityKnight
    Due to her 6 fixed skills, for example, Chris will always end up as a "Knight" when maxed out, not matter what you give her for the 2 free slots.
  • Skill lv boosts by equipment are not taken into account.
  • Now comes the tricky part. First, I don't know how the game behaves in case of skill lv ties. But, I can say for sure it sometimes do picks one out of two (or more) skills with the same lv and ignores the rest.
    It does not choose by order of skilling.
    It does not choose from top to bottom of the list, or the other way around.
    At least it does seem to prefer support skills over combat skills. If you have a tie between a support and a combat skill, it will always choose the support skill.
  • When 1 support skill is among the two choosen skills, a prefixed title is added for the support skill. Don't know how it behaves for the other for sure atm.
  • When 2 support skills are choosen, two prefixed titles are given. The order is a total mystery.
    Examples:
    Healing C + Tutor C = HealerProf
    Cook D + Trade-in D = TradInCook
  • Otherwise the title seems to be based on the second best skill, in most cases.
    Some more examples:
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ = ReflexMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ + Precision B+ = ReflexMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ + Precision B+ + Water Magic B+ = ReflexMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Magic Repel B+ + Precision B+ + Water Magic A = IceMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Water Magic A + Pale Gate Magic B+ = IceMagicn
    Earth Magic S + Water Magic A + Pale Gate Magic A = GateMagicn

Someone on GameFAQs stated once, that the title has influence on the characters second-row behavoir in battle. So a "Slasher" will attack if the person in the front row uses an item, while a "Magicn" will just defend. Haven't tested this yet. Would be cool if they serve a purpose after all!

Further, I don't know what happens, when skill boosts given by Jeffersons titles like "Healer" or "Appraiser" for chars who do not posses the skill at all. Either it is ignored or set to "E", yet invisible. If the latter is the case, a character could have actually more than 8 skills. If not, the skill boost "Appraiser" would be useless, due to the fact no combat char with Appraisal skill exist.

Well, perhaps I try to figure out the skill results if I have some time. To figure out the game's decision on ties would be most interesting by now, for further testings. Maybe someone has an idea.

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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Antimatzist » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:00 am

So a "Slasher" will attack if the person in the front row uses an item, while a "Magicn" will just defend. Haven't tested this yet. Would be cool if they serve a purpose after all!

Definitely, but I don't remember where I read that.

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Blutiger Engel
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Blutiger Engel » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:47 pm

CelesDestiny wrote:Spelling mistake. It is "Cook".
Quite the Freudian slip :D

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I had no idea that the titles meant anything.

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Celes
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Celes » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:43 pm

Blutiger Engel wrote:Quite the Freudian slip :D
:lol:

Actually, "Cook" means "Koch" in german, so that's where the "c" came in :)

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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby avenger » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:50 am

once i get enough titles i give the corisponding titles to which ever character is gonna work well with.

basically Augustine get's that title that helps boost the swing. i know if you give rose broaches to him it will raise his swing but even with two white rose broach it doesn't bring it to s. so hence the title.
hugo i give him a title that helps in accuracy and so on..
the titles are very usefull and i like that idea.

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Blutiger Engel
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby Blutiger Engel » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:40 am

CelesDestiny wrote:
Blutiger Engel wrote:Quite the Freudian slip :D
:lol:

Actually, "Cook" means "Koch" in german, so that's where the "c" came in :)

Makes sense. When I took German I would accidentally type "dick" instead of "dich," etc while doing homework. It happens :D

So the titles basically act as skill boosting accessories?

eldrasidar
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Re: Where do Titles come from?

Postby eldrasidar » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:40 am

celes, I have some information regarding ties, which I'll research more fully today. there is an order of preference, at least with the magic skills. from the tests of done so far, a tie in chant volume and water or wind goes to chant, and a tie between fire and sword of magic goes to sword of magic. I'm intrigued by the data you have provided from Sasarai, which in theory, regardless of his other skills, he should always be an EarthMagicn. I found similar data with Hugo, however, in both cases, they have 1 skill which is S(earth for sasarai, and repel for hugo), however they both have numerous skills which reach the B+ and A levels. So I'm wondering if perhaps an S level skill is not as valuable as it would appear, or if the presence of numerous other high level skills lowers their affect on the title. I know that when I was looking into the Slasher and Knight titles, there are several combinations of skills which can create those titles.


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